Phonoland

Have a Seeburg Wall O Matic 200 D-3WU and it has an s999 lock on it. I ordered a key and can't seem to get it to open. The key will fully insert and will only wiggle a little. I've sprayed the lock with some lubricant and no luck. Was wondering if someone had any other tips of tricks to free up the linkage which seems stuck.

Hi Wayne,
I assume that this is a "new to you" WOM--If so, you may not have the correct key, as sometimes those locks were sent to the factory and had their tumblers changed to a "master" number--However, when that was done, MOST of the time they "x'ed" off the key number.
Try the following: Set the WOM down, with it's backside on the bottom, gently apply pressure to the key while using your "third hand"( OK--get some help !), tap gently all along the sides of the WOM. Ron Rich

Yes I am new to woms. It could be a possibility that it wasn't x'ed out. I've tried laying it on it's back but no luck there. Is it possible to get a copy of a master key that would open all locks?

For those dealing with this problem, can be helpful to understand the two main causes;

1) If the key does not turn mor ethan a degree or two and stops hard, the situation is either the wrong or miscut key, or a repinned "operator" cylinder.

2) IF the key turns just a bit and the stop has a spongy feel, that is a case where the internal cam has become jammed. This is a four-point cam operated locking system. Two slots are visible at the bottom and there are two studs slightly to either side of the coin entry casting.

In this second case, one approach is added force by placing a pliers on the key -right up to the cylinder and while laying the box on it's back, simply try to force the key to turn. --It will always turn clockwise about ¼ turn to unlock.-- In the case of jammed cam, it is likely that something has come loose and wedged into the cam. Try placing the box in many different positions while hitting it (not on the glass of course) while attempting to force the key.

Drilling the cylinder is NOT the approach to a cam lock.

If all else fails it will be necessary to take steps that will do lasting damage.

Always start at the top. At the top of the box about ½ to either side of the coin entry casting are the two studs that engage the cam locks. The depth of contacts is only about 1/8th inch so it is possible to pry up the cover to clear the lock pins. Do to pry both sides at once. this will bend the cover which is a casting and may not be fully restoreable.

At the bottom the two slots that engage the cam are visible.

The top two lock points pivot on bearings that are peened into the back of the wallbox plate.
See pic:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=94
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=95

Drilling or grinding out the peened heads at the back of the plate will cause the cam assembly to fall apart inside the box and make opening it possible, though the bottom two points may still need to be pried. The original upper lock bearings will not be reusable so some gaffed solution will be needed if the box is to be locked again.

I have just over 130 of these wallboxes and 93 in service. Of all the problems one can have with these boxes, lock-cam problem are by-far the worst. Luckily, I've only had to deal with this three times.....so-far......

Rob/NYC

Thanks I was able to get the cover off by prying up a little on the top and on bottom without damaging any of the casting. I took the lock assembly out and the linkage of the wallbox turned no problem. So I believe the lock has been changed and never crossed the old number off or the lock internals is seized. What would be the best way to test out this unit without hooking it up to a jukebox? Could I just power it up with a low voltage transformer? Want to see if the lights and controls work before hooking it up and having it cause an issue with the jukebox.

You can use the low-v wallbox tran in the juke. Green is the AC and red is gnd. Leave the blue (sig) out till tested.

A drop of oil should be placed on the two ends of the motor shaft and the gears and shafts of all the gears in the train. A bit of lubriplate or similar grease should be placed on the cam profile that actuate the keyboard locking spline.

To test for continuity; leave the box un-connected to AC. Connect an ohmmeter to it's chassis and blue terminal. slowly turn the wiper over each rivet and check for resistance. If the box has not been washed, you can expect a fair amount of resistance in the keyboard contacts.

These 200's have a peculiar "feature" that places the signal line in the credit unit and under certain conditions, adding two credits caused a continuous short across the signal line. I have no idea what the intention was here, but it is easily disconnected by looking for a wire of a solid color at the wafer where the interval between letters and numbers occurs. I just cut it off at the rivet it is soldered to.

There are a number of other minor problem areas in these boxes, but those are the main areas.

BTW: Has the stepper been serviced?

Rob

Yes the stepper has been serviced and recapped. The wallbox seems to be ok once power once sent to it. I noticed that when you put a dime in the slot it will let you make a selection but the selection light only comes on after a fee coins. Not sure if just the sockets are dirty since the box had been sitting in a garage for a few years. Also the 10c selection light didn't come on after dime was inserted. When I connect the wallbox to my ay160 juke I noticed that started to scan only after a couple selections. And sometimes no scan after selection. Going to go through all the contacts and make sure there clean and gapped properly. Any other trouble issues I should be aware of on these wall boxes?

When a selection is made but scan fails, does the selection still play if you get the machine to scan by either making another selection or using the service sw? If so the problem is in the timing relays. The scan contacts are larger than the W-I one so they are easy to see.

If both selection and scan fail it can still be timing relays but here we look for the contacts on the number clapper that charge the top timing relay (the ones closest to the relays). It is also possible that the transfer relay is getting stuck due to residual magnetism and staying in through the interval. This results in both letter and number pulses piling onto the letter wheel and no action at all to scan or W-I.

This assumes that the scan assembly under the mech -always- works properly on keyboard selections.

For those interested, scan is initiated by the two timing relays. They both pull-in during the first number pulse and must remain in till a fraction of a second after the last number pulse. At that point the top relay falls out and the copper rings on the bottom one hold it a fraction of a second longer. This is when both scan and write-in commit.

Observing the stepper action will help a lot and knowing how to setup the relay contacts for proper wiping action and pressure are important -but easy to learn.

Rob

Quixk question I disconnect the wallbox from my Seeburg ay160 and now I cant make any selections on the jukebox anymore. It will except the coin show a credit and once you make selection the number and letter buttons stay down and the mech doesn't move. I never had a problem before I connected the wallbox. What would be the best place to start to resolve this problem. I just want to get the juke back working properly before I reconnect wallbox again.

Hi Wayne,
Pop the cover off the RCSU ( with the power OFF !), and check that both "wheels" have returned fully to the rest position. If they have, check the service manual, for the two relay contacts that open the TES circuits. Ron Rich

Hi Wayne

Check the service switch to make sure it has been returned to the proper position.

Best
Darrell

To amplify on Ron's suggestion, the number stepper wheel has a roller-actuated set of contacts that open when the first number pulse arrives. This can impede the wheel from homing after write-in and it is really unnecessary. I disable it by using a visegrip pliers and slightly bending the bracket so that the roller no longer contacts the wheel.

Rob/NYC

Rob,
Shame on you !! That's a "Geppeto fix", ifin I ever saw one ! If you are sure you want to disable that contact, (which I have never found to be necessary?), why don't you just solder a jumper across them ? Ron Rich

Because, it is the friction of the roller that is the potential problem. If it redeems me from Gepetto-dom, i often removed the switch altogether and just soldered the wires at their origin. I get rid of at least two sets of contacts on the timing relay too.....

Rob

Rob,
Well, almost !
Ron Rich