Seeburg 100B cancel problem (cancel coil on frog)

I have a Seeburg 100B with a “cancel problem”. Selections don’t cancel after the first play but will eventually cancel after up to 10 or so playing cycles. I suspect a weak voltage at the cancel coil on the contact block. I base this conclusion on the following:

The plunger in the cancel coil/sleeve barely moves when fired but it does move. I checked the voltage across the coil when it fires and it varies from ~1 vac to a max of 7 vac or so. I suspect that after a number of smaller cancel shots the selected pin/lever finally moves enough to complete the cancellation.

I then tapped into a 24 vac source at fuse F4 (the 2A slo-blo fuse in the cancel circuit). The plunger fires VERY strongly with the 24 vac jumper.

My question is: What is causing the low voltage at the cancel coil?

First off, I think all my ‘leaf switches’ seem to be properly set as the sequences appear to function in the proper order. Could some of the leaf switches in the cam switch, reset lever switch or reversing switch be dirty and need a burnishing (i.e. with a piece of fine grit sandpaper)? I strongly suspect this to be the case.

Also, I had the pin-bank completely restored in 2006 by juke-doc- of-ohio and it had worked nicely since then.
Is there something else I should check, clean, or replace?
Thank you,

Don

Don,

I have a similar issue with my 100R. I have validated that all of my contacts are clean and set properly, have gone through the timing and adjustments 5 times now to make sure.
What happens with mine is the cancel coil will trip the pin back 95% of the time, the other 5% either the pin never moves or moves but not enough to reset the pin, but even if the pin doesn't move or moves a little the plunger does fire. Now It does not matter which selection but mine seems to have a worse time with the Side A (rear coil), I actually replaced the coil recently and still has the issue, so it i not an issue where the sleeve in the coil is moving. The contact block has been cleaned and all contacts and solder points are clean. I have new plungers & springs in both coils and still have an issue.

My pin bank was completely cleaned out and restored a few months ago and my receiver and amp are re-capped, just an FYI.

The unit does not have any other mechanical issues, selections are working 100%, sound is great, mech movement is 100%.

Don,
The SA Unit ("Pinbank") and that 2 A slo blo fuse have nothing to do with the pin cancel circuit ( And BTW--I strongly suggest you lower the fuse to no more then 1.6 A).
If failing on both sides, and both coils are good, and neither "coil sleeve" has "migrated", your problem can be almost no other place the the S-SC contacts--which, IMHO, should NEVER be touched with "fine sandpaper" ! --see posted note on how to clean contacts above-- If only happening on ONE side--the reversing switch is the problem-- Ron Rich

Ron,

Thanks for the quick response. After my initial query, I did further research and found out that the 2050 tube had no connection to the cancel coils and also a mention regarding the 2A slo-blo fuse. You have comfirmed my suspicions regarding the C-SC contacts. I will re-check all the settings on the cam switch in the next day or so. What do you recommend to use in cleaning the C-SC contacts?

Also, I came across your Seeburg Mechanism Guide and a DVD by Mike Zuccaro on Select-O-Matic 100 Restoration and ordered both of them from Always Jukin'. (Mike Zuccaro lives about 10 miles from me).

Thanks again, and I will let you know how I make out.

Regards,

Don

Hi Don,
Thanks for purchasing the Guide !
Please read the above (sticky) post, "How to clean contacts"--
AND, should you speak to Mike--please say Hi from me !
Thanks, Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

While I'm waiting for your book and Mike Zuccaro's DVD, I have a couple follow-up questions regarding cleaning the blade contacts on the cam switch. I read your "sticky note" on contact points and it makes sense to me but I am unsure of some of the tools used.

There is a very nice electronics parts supply store here in San Diego where I buy my project parts (much nicer that Fry's) and they could probably steer me in the right direction.

For clarification, just what is a "point file"? The only tool by that name that I have used is one for the ignition points on my 312 CI y-block Ford. Since it is a file, I think it would be worse that fine sandpaper for cleaning the contacts. What should I ask for? Also, is a "burnishing tool" something that the electronics place woud be familiar with and (most likely) have in stock? I assume the "plastic safe solvent" is something that comes in a spray can or brush applicator form.

Also, I checked the voltage at blade 6 on the cam switch and it is correct at 28.3 vac which further confirms that my problem is with the blade contacts.

Many thanks for your assistance,

Don

P.S. Found the point file in my tool box and just got back from the electronics store with a can of contact cleaner that is safe on plastics and a burnishing tool. I'm all set to go....

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