Phonoland

Hello group.

I am not a phono/radio restorer, but rather a vintage car enthusiast who restores some rare, electromagnetic turn signal "semaphores" for the hobby. These were used in the 40s and early 50s. I am looking for a source from some thin, brown paper wrap that is used on a magnetic coil in these devices. I Googled "vintage electronic restoration forums" and found this place. It occurred to me that some of you folks might have used such a material in radio/phone restoration for coils, transformers, etc.

This paper is very thin and slightly translucent. Kind of like a thin waxed paper, or parchment. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any help....

Hi John,
I know exactly what you are looking for--it is also used in transformers--see if you can find a transformer re-winder in Mass--after the snow disappears-- as they should know of a source. Ron Rich

Hello John & Ron,

Ron is correct with regards to the transformer rewinders, we used to call this interleading paper if memory serves me correctly going back nearly 40 years when I used to work for an electrical/rewind company, my old boss used to give me hell for using it too much, it made a better transformer but added more to our costs. It was used to stop the windings digging in and also used when you added a tapping on the transformer.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Well in this case, it will merely cover the coil, actually a solenoid. I will try to post some pics of these devices later on, you might enjoy them. The paper is not in between windings, so really it is cosmetic I think. This particular device is housed inside a metal box and only visible when the semaphore is actuated. Another version that I restore is covered by red cloth tape.

I've done some search but have not found much. I have found some "hi temp" (80C) kraft paper tape that might work, but the shreds of paper left on this original coil is much thinner, somewhat translucent, almost like a waxed or parchment type paper. These coils will get pretty warm when energized, but they are not often left in the "up" state for long periods of time.

JH

Hi John,
Re-reading this, my thoughts are 1. Why is the paper missing today--did the coil(s) burn up, and/or were they in need of a re-wire ? 2. Is any "paper" a good idea ?--perhaps without it, the coil will remain cooler ?
Ron Rich

Yeah, I had thought of that. I found some nice brown waxed craft paper that looks close to what was on there originally, but I wonder how well it would hold up to the heat.

Of this pair of semaphores, only one had traces of paper on the coil, the other was bare. They actually have some subtle differences however, but unless you look real close, you can't tell. And one of the coils is darkened in the center, wire lacquer is darker, indicating it got pretty hot at one time. But it works, and reads the correct amperage when activated, same as the other one with a perfect coil.

I will run them a bit and see just how hot the coil gets. I think it should be covered with something however.

Thank my wife for this. She just bought some parchment paper, intended for baking cookies. But if it can take baking heat, it can also take the heat of a coil.

It even has the feel of the old coil wrapping paper.

I used to work on traffic signals and pinball machines. I rewound some coils for pinball machines. They had some kind of colored sticky tape wrapped around the coils.

I would love to see photos of this semaphore.

RC,
I had a 1951 VW Bug, while I was stationed in Germany/Italy. It had semaphore (lighted--pop-out) "turn signals", located just above, and behind the doors on both sides--In Germany, these were called "Mox-nix-sticks"--They were operated by a simple crank timer, located dead center on the dash board. If you wanted to signal a left turn, you "cranked" the bottom of the lever to the left--right turn--crank it right. I think max time was two-three minutes--mechanical clock was somewhat "settable"--Mine worked great, but I heard that they were "troublesome" ??
Ron Rich

Ron Rich is right, these were used in the early split window Beetles. I am presently restoring a '51 actually. Below is a pic of one of the ones I restored. Most all had the red cloth wrap, I get it from book binding supplier in Germany. The sems I was actually posting about originally were actually used in a VW drivetrain truck called a Tempo Matador. I finished those sems a long time ago, and quite honestly forgot what I wound up doing for the paper. Those sat inside a little metal box outside the front quarter panels.

Ron Rich, you memory is good. The beetle ones sit in little pockets in the body B pillars behind the door posts. In convertibles, they were in the lower quarter panels, under the rear side windows. The only they are switched by a 3 position switch right at the top center of the dashboard, you just reach up and flip it to the left or right. It does not however have a timer, there is no "auto cancel", you have to reach back up and turn them off. There is a red indicator light on the dashboard panel next to the speedometer that illuminates when either sem is up to remind you.

I sell restored semaphore pairs for $1000-$1500 on average. Ironic, as in 1951, you could buy a new beetle for about $1500! I also make cloth covered wiring harnesses for '53 and older beetles.

Here is picture of a "split" beetle dashboard, you can see the semaphore switch at the top center of the dash:



This one is a standard model with no chrome trims, black dash pods and a tractor like steering wheel.

March '53 and earlier beetles had two pieces of glass as the back window, and the were perfectly flat. VW had no yet mass perfected inexpensive, curve glass production in volume, thus the two pieces of glass. That is why these models were called "splits".



Here you can see semaphore in the body...

John,
My memory says that the (split-front and rear vindow)VW I had, did have the switch mounted there--however, I remember it as being up-side-down, as compared to the one shown ? I am also sure it had a mechanical timer ( like an egg timer) in the switch, that pushed it back to center position--Perhaps I had a "deluxe" version, or possibly some previous owner installed an "aftermarket" product there ?? I re-call that the switch would once in awhile stick with the right side mox nix stick, powered - burned up a couple of them that way--I don't recall any red light on the dash to indicate that the stick was out? Can't be that my memory is wrong-- It's the greatest--just not too long !!
Ron Rich

It is possible that there was an aftermarket accessory switch, but in my 34 years with VWs I have never seen or heard of one. Sounds like a neat idea though! People very often install that original switch upside down. The one in the pic above is correctly installed. Th front glass was never split/2pieces in Beetles. The VW buses however, up until '67 had split window, 2 piece windshields....

Hi John,
Perhaps since my VW was not an export model, it was different ?--I got it with a broken 1/2 windshield, which I had to have repaired in order to register it in my name---Ron Rich