Help. No sound for phonograph.

Hello:

By great fortune, I stumbled across a Panasonic Model 30 (Center Unit Model: SD-201) turntable in the trash with a built in AM/FM receiver. I plugged it in to some speakers and the radio works wonderfully. The phonograph works as well, but I have to put the volume all the way up to hear the record very faintly. Could it be the amplifier or the needle? Please help. I really would love to get this beauty working. Let me know if any other specs would be useful. THANK YOU.

It will require a new cartridge, and since those old crystal cartridges are scarce now, a retrofit type of ceramic will have to be fitted.
Probably re-wiring, re-balancing and possibly input modifications usually are in the works.

Thank you very much, Matt.
I included some pictures just to make sure.
I would like to ask one more thing: which cartridge should I buy? I know most are sold online. Once again, thanks a lot for your help.

MattTech wrote:It will require a new cartridge, and since those old crystal cartridges are scarce now, a retrofit type of ceramic will have to be fitted.
Probably re-wiring, re-balancing and possibly input modifications usually are in the works.

The spindle looks "twisted" because of the orientation of the 45RPM adapter.
If that's the case, the changer will require more work due to underneath issues now.
Nevertheless, it's got 40+ year old lubricants that need replacing, and possible rubber mounts dryrotting.
And those photos don't show me what cartridge was issued to that machine, they used several depending on the run.
Since it's not on my bench at the shop, I cannot comment further over the internet about issues I cannot see.
Best to locate a local servicer/restorer who can straighten out the unit successfully.

I can only advise on customer servicable things like needle changes, etc.

That is a BSR MiniChanger dressed up for Pana.

There is some data here: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/bsr/ ... nger.shtml

Lift the tonearm and take a shot of the ceramic cart. Then one of us can point you to a stylus.

Matt makes a point about the crooked 45 adapter. The spindle itself will have a lever that slants outward to hold, then drop the record. It should be diagonal opposite from the upper right side of the changer where the overarm pivots. Anything else could d be a problem although you can still manually play records.


Carefully remove the "C" clip at the center of the turntable and lift it off. Use a drop of light machine oil (10 weight) on the motor shaft bearing. Be careful not to contaminate the stepped motor pulley, Use rubbing alcohol to remove any oil on that gets on the pulley and clean the inner rim of the turntable as well. Check the motor pulley steps for rubber deposits . These come from the idler puck and after a while they act to make the pulley larger in diameter causing the records to turn too fast. Soften any deposits with the alcohol and scrape them off with a plastic such as an old credit card. Avoid using anything metal as it can scratch the pulley and cause rumble (not that you'll hear it on small speakers).

Another sparing drop of that oil on the idler shaft and a few drops on the center shaft of the turntable bearing.

if you are not familiar with servicing changers it is best that you not deal with the underside of it's mechanism. People often oil things that should not be oiled and make a mess of it.

Above all else: Do NOT force anything!

BTW: I believe Panasonic compacts of that vintage (late 1960s to early 70's) used 16 ohm speakers. Be careful in using anything with lower impedance as it might draw too much power from the output transistors if you crank it up.

Rob/NYC

Rob-NYC wrote:That is a BSR MiniChanger dressed up for Pana.
Rob/NYC

Nope, Rob, that changer has nothing to do with the BSR mini-changer, it's pure Panasonic in design.
All the BSR's had a manual size selection lever - this Panasonic uses a size-sensing finger as seen near the rear of the stabilizer arm.
And the Panasonic mechanism underneath is way different than the BSR mechanisms.

' Have to disagree here Matt,.

I have this exact model in white:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-PHILCO-Rec ... 2edcdde655

Bought new in Dec 1970. The instructions are dated 1967 and, as you can see, no manual size. they used the sensing lever. At some point in late 1971 my English teacher got a small system for her bedroom and I set it up for her. It consisted of a mini changer and it had a plastic deck and manual size selector.

The early ones my friends all had (1969-70) (junk, but popular) were all automatic size sensor as was the full size in the Pana SD85 that a girl I knew had. However, the one I found on the street (the stereo, not the girl) 5 years ago has the BSR /wmanual size selector. Same model SD85 but with that slight difference. The Pana version does have an arm with standard mounting studs, but uses a ceramic cart that looks a lot like a Shure magnetic. Their blurb called it "Magnastate" -or something like that.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/panasonic_ ... guage_id=2

I guess BSR went with a manual selector to squeeze just a bit more profit out of the design.

Rob.

Rob, those two links are yes, BSR's. - no doubt about it.
But the OP's changer is a panasonic-made unit, with definite differences to a BSR.
I've got a Panasonic SG-635 compact portable stereo phono system with the same changer as the OP's.
The PhotoFact set 1147 folder 5 has the service info - and you'll see it's not a BSR made unit.
While the looks may be quite similar to the casual eye, they ARE of different design.

Well, this has certainly led to an interesting, if useless bit of reading on a cold NY night.

Matt, I agree you are right on this being a Pana model. I also found this site:
http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/changerz.htm

Quoting: In 1971, Panasonic (Japan) started selling a mini changer with a falling record sensor similar to that on the Glaser-Steers. They disappeared within 2 years, replaced by the now ubiquitous BSR overarm changer with the size switch.

What is odd is that they seem to have used a full-size BSR for certain models from at least 1969-70, then designed their own mini and used it on some models and switched fully to BSR product in 1973. Weird that their deluxe "Princeton" model (that a friend had) used their mini while the less expensive SD-85 continued to use a BSR full size through it's approx 3 year run.

Another slightly odd point is that if the 45 adapter in the OP's pic is Panasonic, it seems to have rivets in exactly the same places as the BSR issue. The Japanese were very good at copying.

The main problem that I noticed in those older Pana units was that they used germanium transistors and the performance deteriorated noticeably as they were used. bass and power output dropped due to the changing internal impedance of the transistors. The tuner sections while not great, held up somewhat better than the amp and tone ckts.

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:Well, this has certainly led to an interesting, if useless bit of reading on a cold NY night.

Matt, I agree you are right on this being a Pana model. I also found this site:
http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/changerz.htm

Quoting: In 1971, Panasonic (Japan) started selling a mini changer with a falling record sensor similar to that on the Glaser-Steers. They disappeared within 2 years, replaced by the now ubiquitous BSR overarm changer with the size switch.

What is odd is that they seem to have used a full-size BSR for certain models from at least 1969-70, then designed their own mini and used it on some models and switched fully to BSR product in 1973. Weird that their deluxe "Princeton" model (that a friend had) used their mini while the less expensive SD-85 continued to use a BSR full size through it's approx 3 year run.

Another slightly odd point is that if the 45 adapter in the OP's pic is Panasonic, it seems to have rivets in exactly the same places as the BSR issue. The Japanese were very good at copying.

The main problem that I noticed in those older Pana units was that they used germanium transistors and the performance deteriorated noticeably as they were used. bass and power output dropped due to the changing internal impedance of the transistors. The tuner sections while not great, held up somewhat better than the amp and tone ckts.

Rob

The "deteriorating" germanium transistor "effect" or performance is likely due to a phenomenon called "tin whiskers".
Microscopic "threads" of tin mutate and grow inside the transistor, and cause "shorts" or odd behavior.
There are even websites discussing this.
Sometimes, under voltage, these fine threads can blow clear, otherwise the transistor simply needs replacement.

As for the OP's changer - the 45 adapter - if you look closely, it says "Panasonic" on it, and it's identical to the BSR mini 45 adapter - they are interchangeable in that part, but that's where the similarity to BSR ends.