Wurlitzer 2150 Letter Selections are skipping every other letter after 'A'

Hi everyone, I've been lurking on here and a couple other forums for a while now, but can't figure this problem out. I've been restoring a 2150 for the past few weeks and I have both the manual and Harold Hagen's Wurlitzer Reference book v2 which have been very helpful.

I've had the amp rebuilt, I cleaned all contacts and switches and the whole jukebox seems to perform fairly well except for the letter selections.

The selector switch assembly works as it should when selecting the letters A and V, and all number selections work as they should. So it correctly pops the latch pins for A1-0 and V1-0.

However, when selecting the letters B through U, the selector assembly will pop the latch pin starting with C and skip every other letter. Again, the number selections are correct with B through U, just the letter selections are off. The carousel is aligned properly as I can tell and the 4 sets of selector cables coming from the junction box to the bottom of the selector casting are in the correct spot as far as I can tell as well. (unchanged from how they were connected when I received the juke). The selector motor seems to work as it's moving forward and reverse to pop the latch pins.

The complete letter selection pattern is:

A - A
B - C
C - E
D - G
E - J
F - L
G - N
H - Q
J - S
K - U
L - B
M - D
N - F
P - H
Q - K
R - M
S - P
T - R
U - T
V - V

Thanks in advance for anyone's help or interest,
Greg

Hi Greg,
That sure seems as if it cross-crissed plugs to me--HINT: NEVER, ASSUME-- it was correct when you got it !
Get out the Service Manual Wiring Diagram. Ron Rich

Thanks, checking the wiring diagram now. It looks like the selector casting is a lot cleaner than the latch pin assembly. Now I'm wondering if it could be a different casting from another machine. I'll let you know what I find out...

Selector plug 3 and 4 are correct. Selector plug 3 are the numbers and plug 4 is a female plug that can only fit one way.

When I switched 1 and 2 the letters were still off but in a different order. It looks like I may have to re-wire the letter plugs.

"gksnoop05" are you going by the letters/number on the carousel --or the actual pins on the memory bank?

Remember also that the 2000 and 2100series used the same letter-number setup as Seeburg: That is is: A1-B1 C1-D1 Beginning with 2200 it was A1-A2 A3-A4. The crank assembly was different as well. You can not interchange the parts in this specific area.

Rob-NYC

I'm going by the pins on the memory bank, and that's good to know about the interchange of parts. I'm starting to think the casing is from a later series.

Do you think it's possible to re-wire it to select the proper letters or do I need to find an original 2150 selector casting?

I never have encountered this--but I think, if I were going to undertake a re-wire, I would like to have both wiring diagrams to compare--I might worry about "sometin" that may be different between what you have, and what should be there-- I'm not familiar enough with WurliTzer models to be sure in this case --- Ron Rich

Good news is I found the 2250 wire diagram and printed it off to compare side by side to the 2150. I used my "key" from the current incorrect selections to help map out the plug changes I need to make. I don't think I'm allowed to post the wiring diagrams here, but I have my new plug wire map ready to go.

Basically I need to re-order 9 wires from each selector plug 1 and 2. I would be happy to share my diagrams and mapping if anyone is curious to double check my work or see what i'm doing.

Now my question is how to pull out the individual wires from the selector plugs. I removed the top cap of the plug, but I can't tell how the wires are secured to the pins of the plug. Am I able to push them back through the plug or do I need to get new plugs and reconnect the wires? I didn't want to break the plugs without asking first as I've never taken one of these apart.

Greg

Greg, the wires are soldered into each pin. Place the plug body in some sort of gentle-firm clamp with the pin to be unsoldered at or near the top and apply a soldering iron to the pin. When you start to see a bit of bubbling at the end of the pin extract the wire by placing a tiny round object under that wire and "flipping" the wire back and out of the pin. Watch out for flying molten solder. A pliers can also be used but this tends to damage the hot insulation of you are not really careful. Solder may be deposited on the outside of the pin which can make it hard to insert it into the socket so wipe it with a hot iron and/or file it away.

BTW: You can post a link to any external host such as Fileconvoy: http://www.fileconvoy.com/index.php
http://www.filedropper.com/

Rob

BTW: Be sure to make note of the original wire colors and pin positions.

Hi Greg,
Questions--- Can you see that the plugs are miss-wired for you model ( wonder if you have an incorrect model keyboard installed ?)---be SURE the "index keys" are still attached to the plugs? One thing on removing wires from the plug--be extremely careful when "flipping" them out--hot solder MAY "fly around"--use safety glasses, keep your skin covered ( don't axk !!) ! I attempt to heat the bottom of the pin--using a well "tinned iron" , I attempt to place the tip "inside" the hole at the bottom of the pin, and melt the internal solder that way. If you have an old wired plug of this type, I would advise some practice might just help ? Ron Rich

Thank you for the desoldering tips and advice! I was thinking the same thing about trying to practice on another plug first…I just need to find one. When you say index keys, you mean the small bump between the 11 and 1 plug, correct? They are both present.

As for the miswired plugs – I’m not sure if there’s a way to tell if the keyboard is the correct model, but last night I found the numbers 2200 written on the bottom of the selector casting towards the back so my guess this was used to replace a bad casting?

Thanks Rob for the file sharing link. Here is the link to a PDF of the wiring diagrams and my re-wiring plan:

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=ga ... 90154a8bf1

Greg

Greg, have you seen a pic of the differences between the 2100 and 2200 pinbanks?

The 2100 uses one crank with several 'teeth" that hit differently shaped pins on opposite sides of the pinbank.

The 2200 uses two cranks with different positions of the teeth at each end. These hit pins that alternate inner-outer all around the pinbank.

I ask because when one thing has been changed -other things may have been as well.

Rob

Yeah it looks like the only thing changed on mine is the selector casting. The pinbank on mine still has the 2100-2150 stamp on it and has the 3 different type pins (inner, outer and intermediate). The selector motor looks newer than the pinbank as well. I can only guess that something happened to the original selector casting/letter solenoids and was replaced with this one?

Bill said my amp was actually from a 1900 as well so apparently I have a Frankenstein jukebox. All kidding aside, I've been using the manual to check over switches, assemblies, etc, to see if there are any other gotchas. So far it seems to be only the selector.

Thanks again for all of your input, this forum really is invaluable!

Greg

Wanted to provide an update: just finished re-wiring both letter selection plugs and the selector is now properly selecting letters.

Funny enough though I was "fixing" another issue while I had the selector out and now have another problem unrelated to the letter selector. I'll have to post a new topic on it.

Thanks again!

Thanks for this posting--glad you found-it Ron Rich