Phonoland

whats up guys, my name is reyes but everyone calls me gallo. ive always wanted a phonograph, and finally got mine last night. got it for 300 dollars. now can anyone give me any info on this phonograph, if its original? thanks in advance guys

Hi Gallo:

What you have is a reproduction gramophone, known in the trade as a "crap-o-phone" that was assembled from both new and old parts. The reproducer, or sound box, for instance, was taken from a circa 1930s (UK-made) Columbia portable phonograph. The motor, turntable, tonearm, and other hardware probably came from a circa 1920s/1930s portable. The horn and case are reproductions. The lacquered case has been artificially aged to look old. (Note, the type of lacquer finish used on most of these did not exist at the time that outside horn phonographs were produced.)

Most of these were manufactured by the thousands in the 1970s-1990s in India, and a large number appear for sale on eBay at any given time. (Do a search on eBay's main board for GRAMOPHONE, and you'll see dozens that are similar in appearance to the one you have.)

Here are some articles that describe them:

Beware the Crap-o-phone
http://www.mainspringpress.com/crapo.html

Crap-o-phones:
http://www.oldcrank.com/articles/crapop ... ction.html

Toscano Crap-O-Phono:
http://www.shellac.org/wams/wcrap.html

If you do a Google search for Crap-o-phone or Crapophone, you'll find several more sites describing these.

Today, an authentic outside horn gramophone normally sells for $1,000-$5,000, depending on the model, etc. The average selling price for a crap-o-phone is around $75-$200.

Joe,
How can this be ? I can see the stamping: "Made of high class Swedish steel", and "made in Tiwian" ( or something like that) on it !--
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Gallo, Sorry to see anyone get "taken", but use it as a "learning opportunity". I see guys taken left and right on jukeboxes because they don't do any research PRIOR to buying--there are "crooks" in EVERY field--
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Joe,
How can this be ? I can see the stamping: "Made of high class Swedish steel", and "made in Tiwian" ( or something like that) on it !--

Hi Ron:

LOL, that's another clue to identifying a crap-o-phone. These motors, normally Swiss made, were used in a variety of portables, but not in products made by the Gramophone Co., LTD or Victor.

The reason for the ready supply of parts in places such as India was due to the fact that acoustic gramophones were still in use there long after they were consigned to attics in most other parts of the world. As you probably know, 78s were still in production into the late 1960s/early 1970s, specifically for this market -- SEE: http://www.cool78s.com/

In India, based on what I've read on other forums, reproduction gramophones were initially made as school projects by students learning the woodworking craft. For this reason, the quality--if you can call it that--varies considerably on some of the earlier examples from the 1970s and 1980s. Some cabinets I've seen actually aren't too bad, while others are falling apart even the "antiques" stores.

As you note, telling the difference between a fake and the real deal is all part of the learning process.

JDS

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Gallo:

If you purchased this from a shop, and they told you it was an authentic antique gramophone, you might want to check with them if they have some sort of "satisfaction guarantee." At least you'll be able to refer them to the information available online.

JDS

thanks guys. i got my money back from the seller, says he himself didnt know it wasnt authentic but still refunded me my money. now i want one that looks like this one, so what am i supposed to look for that lets me know its original? any markings? again thanks guys. also, what do originals average? any here for sale?

gallo wrote:thanks guys. i got my money back from the seller, says he himself didnt know it wasnt authentic but still refunded me my money. now i want one that looks like this one, so what am i supposed to look for that lets me know its original? any markings? again thanks guys. also, what do originals average? any here for sale?

Hi Gallo:

Very glad to hear you got your money back. Because of the overall condition, it was worth virtually nothing, even for parts, though the sound box may have been worth about $25-50, if the diaphragm was in good condition.

While fakes are easy to spot, recognizing an authentic gramophone comes from experience. For starters, if you want a quality outside horn talking machine, plan on spending at least $1000. Unless the seller doesn't know very much, anything priced greatly under that amount would be suspect.

The $1000 price normally applies to the lower end, smaller models, though they are still of good quality. Even in today's depressed economy, larger, more deluxe gramophones go for far more--especially those equipped with oak or mahogany horns.

Also, what to look for depends on where you are located. In the US, for instance, the most commonly found outside horn talking machines were those made by the Victor Talking Machine Company, and Columbia. In the UK, the Gramophone Company, LTD, was the major brand, while in France and other places, it was Pathe'.

There are a number of websites that have photos of authentic gramophones. That might be a good place to start your research.

For instance:

http://www.victor-victrola.com/
http://www.mrvictor.com/
http://www.phonograph-gramophone-collec ... /main.html

You can find many others via a google photo search for Gramophone, "antique phonograph," "talking machine," etc.

To save a lot of time, and trouble, you might want to consider posting a "wanted" ad on some of the antique phonograph forms. In addition to Phonoland, you might try:

The Talking Machine Forum:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/

The Old Time Victrola Music Message Board:
http://z13.invisionfree.com/OTVMMB/index.php?act=idx

Phonographs.org
http://www.phonographs.org/

Antique Talking Machines:
http://victrolagramophones.proboards.com/

And, if you find something that looks interesting, please feel free to post some images on this site. If it doesn't look right, we'll let you know.

HTH,
JDS

Gallo,
Glad you got your money back ! I did not hold out much chance for that--good luck in finding THE ONE you want. Ron Rich

macaroon wrote:But in the eight picture it indicated: it is made in england. Well, I hope that you could find the right phonograph, which is suitable for you..

The REPRODUCER was made in England, not the whole unit.