A newbie's tale on trying to get a Wurlitzer 3310 to work...

0070julie wrote:Here are some pics of the mech. here are some YouTube link:
https://youtu.be/iNn6PsMA0WI

https://youtu.be/7SVMuSm4ISs

https://youtu.be/tnrdIDGr2rg

https://youtu.be/CyoGB85v8CE

On the first video it appears to be a case of lack of oil. These mechs go through a bit more complication when loading and clamping a record. If the center piece called a "pilot" cannot go through a record due to it being a small hole the center of the pilot which has the small spindle with two tendrils should open and clamp the disk. The also causes a small leaf switch on the yoke assembly which retracts the pilot to trigger the solenoid that shifts the idler to the smaller step on the motor for 33.

On the second video, from what I can make out after lightening it on an editor the spiral spring around the pivot bearing that swings the idler onto the motor pinion is either disengaged, missing or the bearing is gunked with old oil that has turned into molasses. This is likely the problem throughout the machine by now. Though not the cause here, the idler puck may be dried and hardened and may slip even when proper tension is restored. Rebuilding is possible. the belts are available too.

On the fourth video "tonearm Wurlitzer misaligned " the fork that retracts the tonearm is in the rest position where it should be except when a record is mounted. It is lowered by a ramp directly driven by the shaft that the steel cable operates which has the main cam on the upper casting (the arch w/T-T and arm). This is an extremely simple function.

You will need to do two things:

1) Familiarize yourself with the sequence of operation -both from the manual and by actual observation.

2) Oil-Oil-Oil. If the manual doesn't give adequate instructions on this, I'll go into detail. There are some, IMO unnecessary points of strain on these mechs and at the very least, they -must- be thoroughly lubricated to avoid stripping the gears in the mech motor.

.....And 3) Ignore idiots who call this machine a pile of sh--. The internet is full of 'holes who consider themselves 'experts" but never had any real training. They have trouble figuring out a particular mech or circuit, or they just don't like a particular company's product so you get asinine pronouncements like that. The carousel was Wurlitzer's --best-- mechanism. Even these later, complicated iterations were far better than the earlier Simplex or the overly-engineered, plastic-y mess that followed it.

Take the time, do the work and it will run well again.

Rob-(in Liberal) NYC

Rob,
I believe that you missed the fact that she said the"--former owner heard something snap--" That statement, and the "jerky-ness" I see in her vids., indicates to me, something is bent/jamming underneath the mech shelf. Unfortunately I do not know the "nuances" of that mechanism well enough to recall what could be bent--The failure of the "idler wheel" to fall down onto the motor shaft also indicates that something is jamming, as does the operation of the tone arm--I just don't know what--perhaps if I had a working one to look at, I could tell ?? Ron Rich

I believe that you missed the fact that she said the"--former owner heard something snap--" That statement, and the "jerky-ness" I see in her vids., indicates to me, something is bent/jamming underneath the mech shelf.

If you look at the sectional cam on the left side of the mech arch -the one released by the steel cable, it travels through its arc so the cam follower and roller underneath is OK.

The problem is isolated to the top arch assembly.

Julie, place the machine in play mode with a record in position. Turn off all power. Look directly between the front and rear sections of the top assembly and right behind the tonearm. You'll see a sort of see-saw that has the tonearm lifter 'fork" on the front of the machine. At the inside it rides a ramp that is connected to the shaft on that cam with the steel cable. You will have to study the relationship of these parts by manually turning the rear cam (operated by the steel cable). What is happening here is that someone has either removed the tonearm and not repositioned the cam finger that resets the arm's position and thus allowed the ramp to slip out of it's proper position which would account for the "snap as the liter cam spring pulled the ramp out of position. Since everything here is steel I doubt anything was broken. This is a rugged mech. Study the operation and it will make sense.

Here is a good overall shot of that mech (from web):
http://www.retroaudiolab.com/pictures/e ... chrear.jpg

Here is a shot of the reset cam behind the tonearm:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=70
Note the black protrusion that is against the tail of the tone arm. This is how it must be in standby mode. If that is not as shown it means that the ramp is out of position. It is spring loaded. The arm assembly must be removed (two screws on front underneath the arm) then the cam repositioned to connect as shown. This is to be done with machine in the at-rest state with record lift arms down and power off.

If possible, hold the camera steady and give a shot of that area behind the tonearm.

Rob

Hi all!!
This is very encouraging news Rob!
Now I can't wait to get back home and start with these new details! Let's say goodbye to my focus at work for today
Rob, again, many thanks for these new infos. I see now that there is hope for my old lady.. Yes, you get attached to these
You were right Ron Rich about the fact that videos would help to catch the eye of someone who knows these models!! I did not see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel yesterday as it is very difficult for me to explain things I do not know and understand, therefore hard for people, even with the best intentions, to help.
But do no worry,
- Ron I am doing my homework with the manual to learn the correct terms and reading the Newbies forum advices and it helps A LOT! !
- Rob, I will watch every pics you sent, watch and learn the operations from the manual and the machine and follow your tutorials at the letter! You are right! I will take the time, do the work and we will get my old lady to work like in her younger years
- Yes Rob I will need advice on where to oil exactly as the manual does not say much other than to the oil hole under the carrousel and silicon grease on some of the gears...
- I have noticed the Neon lights ballast seem outdated and almost dangerous as some brown stuff seems to have leeked over the years and these are just over the amp board.. I was planning on recapping the whole amp board if I ever got it to work again. The electronic part I am ok with
But first, I will start with all the new advices I just got !
I will post when I am back from work tonight!
There is Hope!!!!! Thanks so much!
Julie

[quote="Rob-NYC
On the first video it appears to be a case of lack of oil. These mechs go through a bit more complication when loading and clamping a record. If the center piece called a "pilot" cannot go through a record due to it being a small hole the center of the pilot which has the small spindle with two tendrils should open and clamp the disk. The also causes a small leaf switch on the yoke assembly which retracts the pilot to trigger the solenoid that shifts the idler to the smaller step on the motor for 33.

Hi Rob
Ok, first I have filmed the operation of the Cam. record clamp roll pin.
WHen it does its normal routine, the record does not clamp.
When I move it myself, the record does clamp, when we hear a click sound. Also the lever and release arm assembly does not seem to move the same way when normal and when I do it myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6lCvB77PA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHR3nWGU7iA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ktDzf947g

[quote="Rob-NYC
If you look at the sectional cam on the left side of the mech arch -the one released by the steel cable, it travels through its arc so the cam follower and roller underneath is OK.

The problem is isolated to the top arch assembly.

Julie, place the machine in play mode with a record in position. Turn off all power. Look directly between the front and rear sections of the top assembly and right behind the tonearm. You'll see a sort of see-saw that has the tonearm lifter 'fork" on the front of the machine. At the inside it rides a ramp that is connected to the shaft on that cam with the steel cable. You will have to study the relationship of these parts by manually turning the rear cam (operated by the steel cable). What is happening here is that someone has either removed the tonearm and not repositioned the cam finger that resets the arm's position and thus allowed the ramp to slip out of it's proper position which would account for the "snap as the liter cam spring pulled the ramp out of position. Since everything here is steel I doubt anything was broken. This is a rugged mech. Study the operation and it will make sense.

If possible, hold the camera steady and give a shot of that area behind the tonearm.

Rob[/quote]

Rob,
Here are some pics of the in between view let me know if you need more or better screenshots... I am alone to take the pics so.. not ideal

Julie, take a look at the set of contacts on the cam lever -that is the assembly that retracts the pilot. From your video it appears that the white actuator of that set of contacts is jammed on the periphery of the hole not sticking through it. That is a crucial function in that it both determines that presence of a small hole record and times that changeover.

Also, remove the small light bulb at the top of the mech. That should prevent any attempt of the mech to change to 33 rpm (not directly related to the clamping issue, but best to pare down operations as we try to solve this.).

BTW: Does the tonearm release when you manually clamp the record? And, do you have a small hole record.
There are several things going wrong here. This would be solved in about 2 minutes if it were in front of me..but we'll get it eventually.

Rob

[quote="Rob-NYC"]Julie, take a look at the set of contacts on the cam lever -that is the assembly that retracts the pilot. From your video it appears that the white actuator of that set of contacts is jammed on the periphery of the hole not sticking through it. That is a crucial function in that it both determines that presence of a small hole record and times that changeover.
**************
-- Hi Rob!
When you say Set of contacts and white Actuator? You are not talking about the contacts of the leaf switches on the cam lever Assy. are you?
Can you direct me to where they are exactly? I joined a screenshot . Sorry I am really a noob at this and any uncertainties and I am gone in a spiral of questions, as if I do not see it named exactly like you say in the manual I am disorganised, in case you did not notice.... Many thanks for your patience )
*************
Also, remove the small light bulb at the top of the mech. That should prevent any attempt of the mech to change to 33 rpm (not directly related to the clamping issue, but best to pare down operations as we try to solve this.).
----- Ok I will
********************
BTW: Does the tonearm release when you manually clamp the record? And, do you have a small hole record.
There are several things going wrong here. This would be solved in about 2 minutes if it were in front of me..but we'll get it eventually.

----- Yes I do have a few 45s with small holes
I will check if the tone arm releases when I get home.
----- And I have added some more videos that I did not have time to post last night. If it helps
- 2minutes for you must mean 2 months for me
*********
Here are the links to the new videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOHD1Rr6-i4 tone arm movement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6akuxKFy1I record end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5MyndPpwGM encore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePqK2QXdQU in case you see something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00-W-NH0WcI tone arm bracket

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rv0408HwAw encore.

Julie, the actuator is #16 in your photo. Make sure it is through the hole.

The tonearm ramp and reset cam all appear OK When in play mode, check to see if the assembly has any play in it...if it can travel further. It may just be that the former owner tinkered with the adjustment bolt that rides the ramp. IIRC, that bolt is supposed to have a rounded tip that rides the ramp.

Slowly, but surely getting there.

Rob

Julie,
On the photo "near the safety switch", you will see a nylon screw that drags on the black metal plate. I can not remember what the exact problem is caused , but I have seen a few of them that have "snapped off". Check that yours is OK, and adjusted correctly--also, push that grease into the "path" of the screw-- Ron Rich

Rob-NYC wrote:Julie, the actuator is #16 in your photo. Make sure it is through the hole.

The tonearm ramp and reset cam all appear OK When in play mode, check to see if the assembly has any play in it...if it can travel further. It may just be that the former owner tinkered with the adjustment bolt that rides the ramp. IIRC, that bolt is supposed to have a rounded tip that rides the ramp.

Slowly, but surely getting there.

Rob

Oh great I pointed to it in red on the screenshot from audiolab just above the numbered pic.. and was embarrassed to do so when I saw they name this part a Nylon screw... So an actuator is not a specific part per say, it can be a piece that activates something... Learning learning
Contacted the previous owner again last night And he told me that the tone arm movement and alignement was perfect before he tried to manually push the record forward to clamp. When it clamped he heard a big mechanical click noise like when a record is throwned (??? it throws records?? jeezz Ill watch myself) and after this episode, the tone arm was not working ok as far as getting the needle on the record. Well basically the situation I have right now... Oh and it broke the stylus from the quick movement forward on the record
I will do my homeworks again tonight and come back with more questions Yep, Slowly but surely !

Ron Rich wrote:Julie,
On the photo "near the safety switch", you will see a nylon screw that drags on the black metal plate. I can not remember what the exact problem is caused , but I have seen a few of them that have "snapped off". Check that yours is OK, and adjusted correctly--also, push that grease into the "path" of the screw-- Ron Rich

Ok Ron I will!!
When you say grease, can I use my silicon grease for that ? Or do I need a specific one?
What can I base the adjustement on?
Thanks Ron!
Julie

Hi Julie,
Ya--In Wurli-speak, an "actuator" ist anything, whut "pushes--pulls", or otherwize "moves" anything, in any direction !!
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Julie,
Ya--In Wurli-speak, an "actuator" ist anything, whut "pushes--pulls", or otherwize "moves" anything, in any direction !!
Ron Rich

Hahahahaha! Yeah I know that know

Hi Julie,
As for the grease--maybe--I dis-like "combining" types of grease, as I find they often do not combine well--just turn into "glue"--should be OK if you remove all traces of the "old stuff" first--however I prefer a graphite based grease, as it does combine well, with 20 wt. oil. You may want to re-read the above posts on "jukebox lubrication--I know you read all the "sticky's" earlier, but I guess you forgot--
Has the bottom of that screw been broken off ?? Adjustment is covered in the Service Manual. Ron Rich