grand salon 468 problem , can anybody help please ?

Hi again ...on Saturday night my wife had a party of her women friends over ....
my wife opened the jukebox to put credit on ...
she says that after 2 records she clicked the "Clear or "Subtract" buttons about 30 times by mistake instead of the CREDIT button ...so - after 2 songs - the arm is going on the record - does not seem down far enough - and is gliding lightly over the record in about 10 seconds .....also...when the arm starts to move to go on the record - it is not being swept by the needle cleaning brush ...it`s like the arm is slightly too high ??...is there any logical answer to why the arm is not settling properly ??...and is it easy to fix ??
thanks....absolutely love my Jukie and am lost without it ....heeeellllpppp please
allan

Hi
There may be something inhibiting the tone arm, i have seen some machines where in the wrong hands the tonearm was bent slightly towards the back of the machine, it may also be an adjustment on the lifter lever and lifter lever spring, also the tone arm keeper spring may be bent out of shape. A bad needle can cause the tone arm to glide accross the record. Also check that the tone arm wire is not causing any restriction in movement although this would prevent the tone arm from advancing. If you loosen the gripper motor and cycle the gripper assembly by hand you should be able to see whats causing the problem, but i would say its the tone arm keeper spring, have the parts section of the manual handy while you are doing it
Clones

Thanks very much Clones....that is all beyond me - except " a bad needle "
I have just tried 3 records and it is almost playing - and I think a bad needle could be possible ??
my point is - would this happen after just 2 songs on Saturday ....2 songs perfect - and then all the rest are just skimming very slowly over the record ...the needle brush is still not sweeping the arm though...the arm seems slightly high ...so frustrating ...I think I will get a replacement needle anyway ...how do I find out what needle to use please ??
thanks
allan

I seriously doubt that your wife had anything to do with this problem, unless she had her hands near the tone arm---
So, it would be my guess, that either the needle is broken, or has slipped partly out of the cartridge. The cartridge mounting bracket, also may have come loose. If neither is the case, it almost would have to be that some "piece of foreign material", has fallen into the downward path of the tone arm.
It would be my advice, that you find an "old timer", who is familiar with "record players", to take a quick look at the problem. Messing with it ( or "adjusting it"), without a basic understanding of how it is supposed to work, WILL cause damage ! The "old timer" should be able to diagnose it within seconds, and provide a solution.
Please read all "informational stickies", posted above--needles are easily identifiable and obtainable for this phono, as stated in the "stickies"--.
Ron Rich

Allan: If the spring under the tonearm that applies tracking force came off, the tone arm would float over the record, as would a bent or missing needle. Both can be the result of handling the tonearm. Might not hurt to lift up the tonearm to see if it's still there. The positions of this spring are in the service manual.
Patrick

Thank you all for your replies...I have found a 63 yr old Jukebox Engineer who lives 7 miles away ...what luck .....he is coming tomorrow to have a look and also service the jukebox ....wish me luck ...
thanks again all
allan

ADDED....spring underneath seems fine ...needle doesn`t feel like it`s there ??...anyway ....Engineer is coming tomorrow and I am happy for the jukebox to be serviced ...as a matter of interest , how often should a jukebox be serviced ???

Hi Allan,
You did not heed my advice too well--the gent is still a "young man" !!
Good luck--and, please, post what he finds--even this "old dog", NEEDS to learn "new tricks"--
Ron Rich

I certainly will Ron ...it was you who helped me sort out my 468 last May ....so I owe you a favour ...lol ..
btw - when I told my wife you had suggested it was nothing she had done to cause the arm to float over the record - she breathed a sigh of relief ..she thought it might have been her fault ...so you have put her mind at ease as well
thanks very much
allan

Allan,
Got to keep the ladies "happy"--life's miserable enough, without having "lady problems" !
( If you re-read what I wrote, I "covered my butt", with the disclaimer "unless---")
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron ...how often should I have the 468 serviced please ??...it is used most Sunday mornings for a couple of hours and about 6 times a year in get togethers when it may be on for 8/9 hours ...thanks
allan

Hi Allan,
Believe it or not--I have found that the least they get used, the more often they need to be oiled. I think this is because, when just "sitting", the oil falls down to the lowest points and drips out, whereas, when running, the oil circulates and tends to stay inside "things", where it's needed --I would say that you should oil it every six months, for the first few years--then whenever it "looks dry"-- Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Allan,
You did not heed my advice too well--the gent is still a "young man" !!
Good luck--and, please, post what he finds--even this "old dog", NEEDS to learn "new tricks"--
Ron Rich

OK Ron ...
new Sure stylus - I think he said a N 42 - 44...diamond tipped ???
turntable rubbers had all gone - new ones fitted
Tone arm slightly out of alignment ??....
full service
lifted the front off - didn`t know it came off ...this was filthy with beer spillage / chocolate silver paper / cocktail sticks ...so I cleaned all that up myself whilst he done the service ...he was here exactly one hour ....
£110 charge
is that a reasonable charge ???.....
anyway - it sounds great - very very clear sound and tone ...
he obviously knew his job - but I thought it a little expensive ....but I genuinely wouldn`t know .....he also said to use it as much as possible to keep oiled parts free flowing ...he said ,the less you use it - the more likely you are to have problems ...like a car ...if you don`t use it - it ceases up...
happy with the Jukebox - so - is the price about right ??...probably around 150 dollars ??
cheers
allan

Hi Allan,
Glad he was able to help you--yes, IMHO, his price was more then "reasonable"--How much do auto repair shops charge per hour there ??
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron / Riley .....I said to my wife that we have had the Jukebox a year - so £110 is like £2 a week over a year ...so that`s another way of looking at it ..
he also said that really - it would have to go into a workshop to get it all cleaned properly ...but it is alright as it is ...in excellent working order ...
Riley ...he lives in Crosby.Merseyside and served his time with Music World ??...he is 63 - so we are talking 48 years ago he started serving his time at 15 .....was Music World a well known Company ??
thanks to you both for your help .....
allan