Toasted Marshmallows Anyone and my Seeburg V200 TSR3 Power Transformer.

While listening to my V200 last night my daughter said she smelt marshmallows burning…. Several seconds later we noticed smoke bellowing out of the back of my V200….

I don’t remember if it was still playing at the time but I immediately ran over to the machine and unplugged it. I then pulled the back Amp/Selection Receiver cover off and I was able to see fluid dripping out of the TSR-3 Selection Receiver Large Power Tranformer. It’s the larger transformer that is furthest away from the Amp.

I guess I need to take the blame for this as I recently noticed that one of the 5 keyboard resistors was running extremely hot, I knew I needed to replace it soon but I had no idea that something like this could happen so quickly because of it. If that was the reason why this transformer failed in the first place.

So here is my dilemma….

I have an extra KD200 power transformer sitting around that is a bit rusty but should work…. I removed the V200 Transformer and it looks like it has 2 sets of 10 wires coming out of it whereas the KD200 transformer has one set of 10 wires and the other set has only 9 wires…. Are these transformers interchangeable?

In the next day or so I will be comparing the Wiring Schematics for the both units but to be honest, I have always thought they were the same and interchangeable for a few Tormat years.

At this time I can’t tell you what color wire is missing on the KD200 transformer as I still need to clean these wires up a bit in order to tell the correct colors present and not present.

Also, aside from replacing the power transformer in the TSR3 and changing out the 5 keyboard transistors, Are there any known additional areas of damage to specifically look for when the main power transformer fails like this one?

Or should I just splurge and buy one of those new power transformers that they have available now that has the correct color coded wires etc..?

Note:
The Amp and the Selection Receiver were both rebuilt about a year ago,

The Amp in the V200 still produces sound...
I verified this by taking a semi working TSR3 selection receiver out of a hideaway unit and hooked it up without the keyboard connections in my V200.... The amp continued to play the record that was still in play from prior to the marshmallow incident but the record would not trip... That could be a bad 2050 tube in the hideaway unit as I said it was a semi working unit that I just picked up and have not gone thru yet.



Thanks in advance for any and all help
Jeff P.

Hi Jeff,
I lost my sense of smell years--no--MANY years, ago, but I sure don't equate the smell of a burning transformer to "toasted marshmallows" ? ( thinking about it--"burnt"--maybe ??)
Yes--If you play around, those transformers are almost always interchangeable. Wire lead length varies, and color, somewhat--I think-- but like you said--see the schematics--
I doubt any Resistor in the TES caused this problem, unless you are operating it on "Free Play"--Buy the electronic free play adaptor ! Check/fuse the latch bar solenoid (at 1-3 amps), AT the solenoid. I also split off the power from the 5 amp main fuse to the transformer with a 2.5 slo blo in series--others suggest fusing the 6x4 tube ( 1/2 amp in both sides of the power--or a 1 amp in the return--heard both--never have done any)
I have used a couple of the replacement transformers--NICE ! Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

I Am running one of Vern Schmitt's FreePlay Adapters... "I doubt any Resistor in the TES caused this problem, unless you are operating it on "Free Play" " ?

I like that idea of splitting off the power from the 5 amp main fuse to the transformer with a 2.5 slo blo in series... I will do that,

I may just bite the bullet and buy one of those replacement transformers, I heard they are made in the same factory as the originals provided to Seeburg only they are rated better. and weigh a little more.

In 22 years of my jukin I have never had a transformer fail on a rebuilt receiver or amp....

What can cause a Main Power Transformer failure other than just its age?

Hi Jeff,
Other then age--a short circuit-- Tube type Tormat units have a tendency to have the trip solenoid fail, taking out the tranny. I fuse the "hot-wire" with a 1 amp fuse at the solenoid. When running the Free Play adaptor, the only resistors in the TES that get hot, are for the lamps-only the #55 for the "make any selection" should be lit-thus only one resistor should be even warm--I usually remove that lamp as it either will burn out, sooner, or later, or deform the paint on the glass, as it is always on. Ron Rich

Hey Ron, that makes perfect sense.... I will bet that the trip solenoid failed And shorted out the tranny cause that's the position the mech was in when all the smoke cleared out of the room. I will check It, replace it if necessary and add a 1 amp fuse at the hot end.... Another great tip to remember from the Juke Sinsay... Thanks Again for your input tonight.

There are plenty of reports of 6X4 tubes shorting out, and 6X5's, causing messes in the equipment they're powering.
Zenith, RCA Victor, among others, all are prone to this happening.
A pair of safety diodes, or #44 lamps, in the tranny HV feeds have been used for years to protect the tranny from destruction.
I'd replace the main filters too, in case they got stressed out from the surge.
And go over the whole chassis - because even if "rebuilt"- the tech could have been a slob or cheated on some repairs.

Thanks Matt.... That's good advice as I already see a few things That i am not feeling too crazy about, line cord for starters was not replaced. Never saw a #44 inline before lol

jeffp wrote:Thanks Matt.... That's good advice as I already see a few things That i am not feeling too crazy about, line cord for starters was not replaced. Never saw a #44 inline before lol

Of course, the bayonet sockets under the chassis for these lamps MUST be insulated from everything.