Wurlitzer 3400 Poor Sound Quality

Hi folks!
I have a Wurlitzer Statesman, I've heard these are pretty bad quality jukeboxes. I've got this one up and going, but the sound is just pretty bad on it. The bass is good but the tonearm picks up all the scratches or something on the record and you've got a pretty bad static/crackle/pop going on the whole time a record is playing. It does this on about any record.

When I got it, the cartridge was corroded where the plug plugs in the back, so I replaced the cartridge. This static problem was there before and after I replaced the cartridge.

I've recapped the amp (It's pretty simple, an early solid state), and if I plug in a CD player into the inputs on the amp, it sounds pretty good. It has good bass, and good treble, and for this box that's probably about as good as it gets. There's no static if you have the cd player plugged in, which tells me that either the tonearm has a problem or the amp doesn't 'correct' or filter poor quality inputs very good.

All the speakers check out fine, and again the box sounds fine if you've got a cd player plugged into the amp instead of the tonearm.

If I plug the RCA cables that come from the tonearm into a t.v. or something with aux inputs, I also get bad quality audio with scratches and static. Basically there's too much static, it's the kind of thing that would be hid by a 'scratch filter' on some of the nicer tube amps and some of the rock ola solid state amps, but this one doesn't have a scratch filter that you can turn on. If I lift the tonearm off of the record player, I get dead silence while leads me to believe there's no speaker or even amp problems, but I'm not sure. There's no static with the tonearm lifted off the record.

So my question is, is there something on the amp that should be masking this, or is this just how it is with a Wurlitzer 3400?

Thanks for any help or advice. I have many other jukeboxes but love fixing them up, this is the latest one i'm bringing back from the dead.

Ron

You've answered your own question; the pickup cart is at fault. These used a cheap ceramic and if you want decent sound it should be converted to a magnetic. Wurlitzer went to a Shure M44 later-on with the same tonearm. You can use any decent mid range pickup that will track at approx 3 grams and add a preamp.

I never cared for that mechanism with it's belts and plastic parts, but with a decent pickup those machines will be enjoyable.

Rob/NYC

Thank you for the info, Rob. I'm completely ignorant of the ceramic vs. Magnetic differences so thanks. I replaced the original cartridge with a Pfanstiehl P-132 which I see now is just another ceramic!

I used the same pickup in an older model wurlitzer and it sounded good, but it was a tube amp so maybe it had a better curve built into the amp?

It's a shame because this thing is unlistenable, and I'm not being a snob, it just literally has so much scratching and distortion with even a brand new record I can't understand how they ever sold the first box. It sounded like that with the original cartridge too, so it's pretty perplexing.

I've got a record (Chantilly Lace) that starts with a bell ringing. Instead of a bell, it sounds ilke they're lightly hitting a ride cymbal about 8 times.

Well, if it is that bad check that the wiring of the cart is correct. If the channels are out of phase there will be a big reduction of bass and an emphasis on surface noise. Check that the common that both channels connect to is actually making contact with the chassis. If this is open the cart's channels will be wired in-series and this can also emphasize distortion.

Finally, look at the stylus on the 132 and see if it is chipped or broken. These are not great carts -but should not be awful.

Rob

My cents--TWO carts doing the same thing equals sum ting wong--other then cartridge ??
Ron Rich

I rewired one side of the cartridge which made it much worse, so I must have had it right the first time... maybe the wiring is bad from the cartridge to the amp?

Well, it is pretty much down to two things.

1) Test that the wires from the tonearm -all- have continuity to their respective plugs.

Then:

2) Replace the pickup. What you describe is typical of cracked-dried out twisters in a ceramic cart.

Again you might as well go straight to a magnetic. If you have a stereo receiver and turntable with magnetic cart, try running the "record out' from the receiver into the Wurlitzer inputs. That will give you an idea as to how much better the machine can sound.

Rob

Alright I hate when people post threads then never post the 'fix' so I thought I'd update.

Basically what it all came down to was, the Wurlitzer 3400 Statesman is COMPLETELY intollerant of any kind of scratch or wear on a record. I've had record players and jukeboxes my whole life, and generally I've found that a worn record will still sound 'alright', but just not as good as a brand new record.

So what I did was, I went and found my stash of crappy records... you know the ones, brand new records from 1975 that were horrible country songs, or christmas songs, or whatever that nobody ever played so they're still in NOS condition. Played a couple of those, and voila there's no issue. The box sounds pretty good (considering) but has none of the scratches, pops or distorted treble that it was suffering from.

I can take the same worn/scratched records and play them on my old school Columbia 50 turntable, and they sound fine, just muffled, or whatever.

On the 3400, it amplifies every tiny little scratch or piece of dust in a way that's completely annoying.

I think ultimately it's like Rob was saying, my home model and the other jukeboxes I'm used to using had magnetic cartridges, or amps that had a curve built in to correct for noise, and this jukebox has a ceramic cartridge, so it makes bad records sound as bad as they are, whereas my other machines cover that up.

So now I have to get some really nice brand new records for this sucker. Also i'm having both keyboard, selector pin, and cancel solenoid issues so that'll be the next stuff I get to work on.

I think in the future i'm going to steer away from these early SS wurlys. I've had 80's wurlitzers and 60's wurlitzers and found them to sound pretty good.

One point is to switch that amp to mono at the input. Since the nature of stereo disc recording puts most scratches and some wear out of phase, strapping the input causes cancellation of these faults. This sort of thing is inherent in a mono phono.

This can be slightly less effective when using a ceramic pickup due to differences in response between the two generating elements. Added to that is the plastic stylus cantilever on the 132 which tends to mush the highs (I've tried them on various machines).

Remember that distortion created in the first stage (stylus-cart quality-input stage) can not be removed, all you can do is cover it up.

As a general rule magnetic pickups with a 7 mil stylus do a much better job separating the worn "grunge" from the desired program material.

Here is an example of an original 45 that was heavily "juked" and carelessly stored in a box. Even after washing it still sounded terrible on a typical stereo. However using a Stanton 680EEE in an Empire 598 with tube preamp mono-ed at the input. It's elliptical stylus gets below much of the torn up area near the the upper part of the grooves.

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g9 ... d8084a7d02

Rob

Made a lot of progress on this machine today, I'm starting to like it. It's not so bad once you learn how it works.

- It wouldn't cancel the selection all the time... the cancel microswitch was bad, when it was depressed it had 300ohms of resistance, which made the light on the side of the mech not flash very brightly, which made the cancel coil on the mech so weak that it couldn't push the pins back down very well. Replaced the microswitch and now it cancels after each selection like it should.

- It wouldn't select certain records. Took the bottom of the mech off (it just has three big allen key bolts) and cleaned all the contacts on the pcb on the very bottom, and the wipers. All that works great now.


So now I'm down to basically the last problem, the keyboard. The "A" selections don't work, and the "B" button won't latch. C,D,E,F,G,H,J,K all work and all the numbers work. So I believe it's probably dirty contacts on the A and B keys, and I may have to adjust the bar that latches the keys to get the "B" to work right. What's the best way to clean these keyboard contacts? Everything's so tight in there and it doesn't look like you can easily take it apart. Is there a trick to it?

Thanks for all the help!

Not sure about this--but maybe--the "A"and "B" letters are set to "Album pricing", and that why they won't work ?
Ron Rich

I'll check into that, i'm not sure if that can be changed but i'm going to get the manual out and study it.

Basically the A wasn't latching in, but now it latches in. So if you select A2 or whatever, the 'selector' on the bottom spins around like it's going to select it, but it never stops and selects any of the A's. It spins then just stops and nothing plays because the pin wasn't popped.

The "B" doesn't latch in, so you can't select any of them.

I took the selector assembly off the bottom and cleaned the pcb, I think it's probably in the keyboard since every other selection works and I don't see any damage on the bottom pcb.

Yes--"the "pricing" should be settable--just a matter of moving jumpers, I think, on that model--
However, from your description above, I think you have a mechanical problem in the keyboard.
Ron Rich

Well Ron, you were right both times. The "B" selection was set on album (I found the switches to change it)... and the "A" selection had dirty contacts that fortunately I was able to clean up a little bit and now it works great.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it! This one's working all the way now.... I'll have to start working on something else pretty soon !

Glad you got it--next time your in this neck of the woods, you can "work on" my 1982 Chebby pickem up truck--needs body work ! Ron Rich