Phonoland

Anyone know how much my Victrola VV 1-70 table model is worth? It is nice with rebuilt Victrola No. 4 soundbox and nice grille cloth?

Anyone seen one of those long console victor orthophonics? Model 10-20. Oh my they are nice, I want one so bad. They have a record changer and use the Victrola Orthophonic reproducer. Nice machine the one I heard sounded like an electric machine. I don't understand how it can sound so good to be a acoustic reproducer. My VV 1-70 don't sound that good.

Do you mean a 10-50?

I think it may be a Victrola 10-50, All I know they play so nice and have that changer on their. That Orthophonic sounds like an electric machine. My VV 1-70 does not sound that good.

VICTORCOLLECTOR wrote:I think it may be a Victrola 10-50, All I know they play so nice and have that changer on their. That Orthophonic sounds like an electric machine. My VV 1-70 does not sound that good.

Yup. That would definitely be the 10-50.

That "electric phonograph sound quality" is not limited to the 10-50 model-- SEE: http://victor-victrola.com/10-50.htm -- although, because of it's large horn-- seven feet, according to some sources -- it is able to pump out deep bass, probably in the 80-90 Hz range. The Credenza, which is far more common and affordable, is no weakling in comparison. The six foot folded horn has an "official" frequency range of slightly under 100 Hz to up to 5,000 Hz. As with the 10-50, a well restored Credenza (8-30) will give you the impression that you are sitting directly in front of the doors to a concert hall.


In fact, even the smaller Orthophonic models, down to the Consolette, have an electronic phonograph sound quality, and for good reason. They were designed to be the mechanical equivalent of the electrically amplified phonographs which hit the market at about the same time, and were designed by the same Bell Lab engineers who perfected the electrical recording process -- J. P. Maxfield and H.C. Harrison. (Unlike Columbia and other companies, Victor licensed the rights to produce both the electrical recordings and the Orthophonic Victrolas designed by Maxfield and Harrison.)

In addition to their exponential horns, Orthophonic Victrolas were fitted with sound boxes designed to maximize the capabilities of electrically recorded records. These sound boxes were equipped with spider-driven duralumin diaphragms that were extremely lightweight and flexible. (In contrast, the 1-70 was fitted with a #4 sound box which used a much stiffer mica diaphragm. It was sold for playing electrically recorded records, but did not pump out the same frequency range as the Orthophonic sound box.)

There is quite a lot of information online about this. When you have a chance, do a google web search for the following phrases, using quotation marks where indicated:


"Orthophonic Victrola"

Maxfield Harrison "Matched Impedance"

Exponential Horn Theory



OTHER ORTHOPHONIC MODELS TO CHECK OUT -- By no means, a comprehensive list:

SMALLER HORN ORTHOPHONIC MODELS --

VV 1-90 -- http://victor-victrola.com/1-90.htm

Consolette (VV-4-3) -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-3.htm

Colony (VV-4-5) -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-5.htm

Granada (4-4) -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-4.htm

VV-4-7 -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-7.htm

VV-4-20 -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-20.htm

VV-4-40 -- http://victor-victrola.com/4-40.htm

SOME ORTHOPHONIC VICTROLAS EQUIPPED WITH RADIOS --

VV-7-3 -- http://victor-victrola.com/7-3.htm

VV-7-11 -- http://victor-victrola.com/7-11.htm

VV-7-25 -- http://victor-victrola.com/7-25.htm

VV-7-30 -- http://victor-victrola.com/7-30.htm

SOME LARGE HORN ORTHOPHONIC MODELS --

VV-8-4 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-4.htm

VV-8-7 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-7.htm

VV-8-8 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-8.htm

VV-8-9 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-9.htm

VV-8-12 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-12.htm

Credenza (VV-8-30, etc.) -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-1.htm

VV-8-35 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-35.htm

VE-8-60 -- http://victor-victrola.com/8-60.htm

In addition to the online resources, probably the bible for Victor collectors is "Look for the Dog," by Robert Baumbach. His companion book, "The Victor Data Book" provides even more detailed information about each model.

HTH,
Joe_DS

Congrats on owning a 10-50!!! Although space hogs, once you rebuild the Soundbox and seal up the horn, an operatic or classical VE disc fairly blows you out of the room when played on one of these babies! Here is a pic of ours and it has the aftermarket added glass doors and the coin-op feature. I have to say though, I personally never want to move that sucker again!

Bill

Aftermarket! Is that what they,re calling machines that have been butchered?
By the way Bill. You should read before posting! The guy doesn't own one. He's asking about them. Or are you just trying to raise your post score

Hi Bill:

Your 10-50 is truly magnificent! I especially like the "window" in the door panel. I would be pea green jealous of you were it not for the fact that I couldn't get it through my apartment's entrance hallway into the living-room. (Not to mention the fact that I live on the 4th floor in a building without an elevator.) Nor would I be able to play it all that often, what with paper thin walls and floors.

If things go well for us next year, I do plan to phase out my 4-40 in favor of a larger model. I'd love to have an 8-4, or another Credenza (to replace the one I sold nearly 10s year ago); but I'd even settle for an 8-12 as long as the original finish is intact and in good condition--along with the motor, sound box, etc. I've decided that after 30 years in this hobby, no more fixer-uppers.

BTW, I apologize for accidentally over-writing your last post. I clicked on Quote, then wrote and posted (this) message, which then appeared under YOUR name in place of your original post. It may be a glitch, or I may have done something wrong, but I'll look into it.

Thanks, Joe,

It really is a heck of a piece of furniture. Visitors that have never seen one of these get a kick out of the window, and as long as you leave the door slightly ajar, the light remains on so you can watch the "show."
Collectors do cringe when the record lift ring dumps the played record down the slot though. Needless to say. I don't play real collectible stuff on it but in all honesty it hasn't chipped or broken a record yet.
And your right about the Consolette being a lot of machine for the size. Even with the straight horn it really fills a room. Tom Rhodes (Mr. Orthophonic) was at my home last year and was truly amazed at the volume and response from the soundbox on ours.

Bill

Hi Bill.

One thing I've wondered about. I know that the glass panel and coin box was installed for 10-50 customers who wanted to use them for commercial establishments. Along this line, I was told, but have yet to verify, that after the 10-50's production line was established, Victor sales reps. came to the realization that this was a lucrative market, which prompted the "after-market" modifications. In The Victor Data Book, Baumbach states: "Many of these Automatic Orthophonic Victrolas were equipped with coin slots and windows in the front door installed by Victor jobbers. It is possible that Victor offered windowed front doors as an option on late production (or as a retrofit), but they did not offer coin mechanisms on this model." Is he saying that the door modifications were requested by the jobbers and carried out by Victor, or were they done by outside contractors? (I guess it really doesn't matter, at this point, but it would be interesting, nonetheless, to find out.)

BTW, some years ago, I saw an old advertisement which featured the 10-50--perhaps as a coin operated phonograph. All I remember about it was that the 10-50 was in the background, with a small dance floor bordered by tables and chairs in the foreground. It seems there were couples dancing in front of the machine, and the people at the tables were watching ecstatically. (A speak-easy, perhaps?)

Hi Joe,

Unfortunately, I've been unable to find out very much about who carried out the fitting of the window & coin box mechanism. I will tell you that the machine had to be partially disassembled to incorporate the coin shute and coin box. (you can see the box in the 2nd pic lower right, as the door panel that hid it is tipped to the left.) This particular mechanism has a counter(up to 12), so several nickels could be inserted for more than one selection. Apparently, not all coin op mechanisms had this capability and would only play one at a time. Of course you were at the mercy of what the house loaded up on the magazine spindle! My ser# is 9557, which places it in 1928 range from what I've been able to discern from data that's been compiled by Paul Edie. I too have heard that Victor routed out the wood on the changer door and placed the window there on later machines. At $600.00 a pop, you have wonder how many private homes had these!

Bill