Seeburg SPS-160, record loads, arm comes down, then record unloads.

Hi all,

I just picked up this nifty '72 Seeburg SPS-160 and it needs a LOT of TLC. First, and foremost, the device will recognize a selection being punched into the keypad, and travel to the record. It will pick the record up and mount it. The tone arm comes down, and then back up, and the device ejects the record. Then it'll track back and forth a few times, then stop.

I haven't picked up any manuals yet, but I intend to because my new baby is hurtin' for certain. I want to restore her to her beauty and functionality.

But first, I'd love to hear her play a sweet sweet song for me.

Anyone experience this behavior before, perhaps point me in the direction I should be looking in?

Thanks all, in advance.

Here's a video I shot of the failure in action, if anyone has any ideas.

https://youtu.be/YsJlZZZrWvU

Joe, first off, that is a totally wrong amp. It is fro a 1962--4 LPC. it is designed for a different pickup and for 16 ohm speakers NOT the 5 ohm in the SPS. the proper amp is SHP-1 to 3.

Causes of rejecting: I may be hearing the trip solenoid when it rejects the record. If so, the likely failures:
1) Jammed reject button on back of machine.
2) Reed switch stuck. That is the magnetic switch on the mech that trips the mech at the end of a record.
3) Since the wrong amp is somehow installed, that may be the culprit as the trip ckt goes through the relay in the amp.
4 Lack of lubrication -especially at the clutch. If this is the cause you won't see the trip solenoid pull in. Here the problem is all mechanical.
5) It is somewhat possible that a set of contacts on the mech are maladjusted and keeping the trip relay in the control unit energized too long.

Swing out the control center and look at the two solenoids at the lower left corner. One adds to the scan cycle, the other subtracts, It should make two passes from its standby position and stop.

You are lucky in that it selects. A service manual is essential as is oiling with a 20wt non-detergent oil.

While I have worked on this era of machine for revenue service, they are not my main interest. The real expert here is Ron. I'm sure he'll get involved.

Rob-NYC

-

Hi Joey.
FIRST I strongly suggest that you un-plug that phono, an leave it un-plugged till you have read the I&O manual, and the service manual. See the above posts in the announcements and sticky section of phonographs in this forum, for where to purchase, the Service Manual PACKAGE.
I would also humbly suggest that my Seeburg MicroLog Trouble Shooting Guide, and my Seeburg Mechanism Guide,
should be of help in the scan, pick-up, return record mater. (PM me to order, if you wish) This is the result of lack of, and/or, incorrect oiling. The clutch yoke pin is frozen to the clutch body, and/or the #2 detent lever.
As for the "lamp problem"--not quite sure--that model had a (28 in--I think--see the parts manual, when you get it), flour. lamp ON the smaller upper door--should not be "in the center of the amp" ?? It appears that some "dodo bird" has screwed the totally incorrect amp ( an early TSA-1) onto that door ??--the correct amp ( a model SHP-1), should be "hanging" up on the two pins that are ear the pins holding the DCC. I don't know how they interfaced the mute plug to that amp, but if done correctly that amp will preform the cancel/mute functions OK--but nothing else will be correct, as it is a "miss-match" Ron Rich

Huh. Sounds like I have my work cut out for me. So should I be able to get basic functionality even with this amp? Can I relocate it to clear the room for the light? I actually like the idea of replacing the fluorescent with LED though; seems that with the device closed up it wouldn't be obvious it wasn't original.

I intend to order the manuals (yours specifically, Ron! ) but I have to wait a few days. Kinda living paycheck to paycheck at the moment.

Joe, that amp has to go. if wired correctly you will get sound and it will trip. But the sound will be overly bassy and distorted due to the oddball way Seeburg designed the input coupled with the fact that the cart that amp was designed for has a much lower output than the one in that machine.

FWIW: The machine must have an amp in order to trip at the end of a record, but it will trip to play w/out it. As a test; remove the Mute plug (a green rectangular plug) from the face of the amp and see if the mech now stays on a record when selected.

Beyond that, I'd wait till you have the service info and are more familiar with the terms and circuits.

if you go the route of an LED retrofit tube make sure to note the rewiring required for it (most require eliminating the ballast) and get a frosted tube. The bare LED's are way too glaring. Check that the light dispersion angle will work given the position of the lamp pins when fully seated.

Rob

I got the mechanism out of the case yesterday, hopefully I can start poking around, cleaning contacts & the clutch mechanism, etc. I'm looking into picking up the correct amplifier as well.

Question: Does this jukebox have an "aux" input, something that an external source can be connected to, to play house music for instance when nothing is actively being played on the box?

Hi Joey,
Quick answer--yes.
Hint #1: When you "pick-up" the correct amp., be sure to pick-up the correct volume control for that model !
Hint #2: to paraphrase Rob what wrote above--wait ( don't "poke around") until after you have read, and understand the phonograph ! ("Poking" usually causes damage !!) Ron Rich

JoeyDVDZ wrote:Question: Does this jukebox have an "aux" input, something that an external source can be connected to, to play house music for instance when nothing is actively being played on the box?

As Ron alluded there is a way to input and external source..actually there are several.

1) On the SHP series there is a Mic input on the amp itself. This appears to be line level so it could be used. problems are that it comes after the tone and volume controls. It is just a flat input. From what I can see of the wiring, this input will still work even with the machine in standby and the mute relay active. Ron can tell you (and possibly sell) the proper plug.

2) Simpler and IMO better in this case: Get a 120 vac relay with DPDT contacts. Attach the coil of the relay to the power source for the mach motor in the control center and use the relay's contacts to switch the machine speakers to the machine amp when the juke is in use. then when the juke motor is off the relay contacts would connect the machine speakers to an external amplifier (receiver, control-amp, etc) The external amp should not have more than 30-40 watts/channel and be able to deal with the 5 ohm speakers. Nearly all modern amps will work into a 4 ohm load, so no problem. I don't normally recommend using external amps with juke speakers since the older speakers weren't designed for the power and bass of modern amps. However these "later" machines have decent power handling and actually, pretty good response, so they can work well if you stay reasonably with regard to power.

As Ron and I have said, please wait for the service info before you fold, spindle or mutilate anything:-)

Rob

I appreciate the advice, and the warnings concerning "poking around", but I wasn't actually going in blind, as suggested by that phrase. I actually have been reading and watching many videos from various sources concerning this jukebox and others that use the 160 record player device, and found a document that details exactly where the oiling points are on this machine. I am going to pick up the service manual of course, but for basic cleaning I think I can handle that without any further detailed guidance than the videos I've found. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, and know my way around a circuit board from over 25 years as a PC technician, so I won't break anything that isn't already broken.

That being said, of course it's better to have the book for guidance, if only to ensure that I know what every circuit does and how to determine if it is or is not doing what it's supposed to do.

Thanks again to you folks for your suggestions!

Joey,
Be extremely cautious on the vids posted--I have seen many of them and they ALL have errors, some, IMHO catastrophic ! Ron Rich

So I gave the machine a good de-gunking and re-oiling, and found one of the contact leads for the tormat was bent down. I bent it back up to match the other side and cleaned all the contacts I could find. I took the clutch mechanism out and de-greased and re-oiled that as well.

Reassembled everything and reinstalled in the case. Reconnected all connections. Fired her up. She now scans back and forth along the track quiet as a mouse. Barely makes a noise as she's gliding back and forth.

Unfortunately, she no longer pretends to pick up a record. She just scans back and forth until she stops.

I suspect something in the switch that contacts the tormat has come loose. I will take a good look at the wiring there, see if I broke something.

I guess I'm waiting until I can get my hands on the manual, probably end of this week when I get paid.

Fun times!

Unfortunately, your haste, and / or (someone's) lack of knowledge, has destroyed the read-out contact. I hope you are more successful then I have ever been, but I have NEVER been able to straighten out that contact perfectly.
Ron Rich

Well, I can guarantee I didn't bend that contact out of true... it was literally a gunked up mess all twisted under itself. I tried to straighten it out as best I could, but I didn't have the wherewithal to get the kinks out of the blade. I'm going to try to flatten it out with a needle nose pliers sometime this week, see if I can rectify the situation.

Do you think that's what's causing this issue? Seems odd to me though; the other side looks perfectly straight, and I have to assume that both sides are needed for any meaningful, but I was getting the device to pick up a record, but it would just reject the record and move back to scan mode.

I took a picture of the device before I started working on it (actually, I took many, but this one shows the contact).



Can this unit be purchased? Where would you recommend I find one if it can?

Hi Randy,
There are only a few things that will cause this to happen. The most common two are 1. the mechanism being reversed prior to reaching the end of the rack, and 2. Failing to properly block the mechanism prior to moving the phonograph. Yes they are both "important" at different times.
I have a few NOS contact assemblies left in stock--PM me to purchase, if you wish.
Ron Rich