Phonoland

Hi everyone! This is my first post here, also.

I recently bought my first antique phonograph, a Thorens brand suitcase model. I don't see a model name or serial number on it. I got it on eBay and the seller didn't have much information about it.

I received it in the mail today. I cranked it up, put on a record, and set the needle down, but it slowed down and eventually stopped completely. When I removed the needle, it started up again.

At first, I thought that the needle was just sitting way too heavy on the record, but there doesn't appear to be any tension spring like on newer turntables that would give it any lift, nor does it look like there ever was one.

Is the motor just worn out? It will play all the way through if I constantly crank it. Any idea what the problem is? And, if you can trouble yourself to lead me to someone who can diagnose and repair the problem, I'd appreciate it very much.

Thank you very much!

Hi Konya:

If you purchased this within the last week or two, could you provide the link to the ebay auction? It might still be in their archives.
If not, could you post a few photos? That may help someone identify the model.

There are a number of possible reasons for the problem you described. The simplest is that the gramophone was not fully wound. You should turn the crank until you feel definite tension build up. If this has a single spring motor, it takes about 25-35 turns of the crank to accomplish this.

Since this is your first acoustic gramophone, you should also be aware of the fact that is was designed to play shellac based 78 rpm records (normally dating from the early 1900s through about the mid-1940s.) Attempting to play a vinyl 78 will slow down (and destroy) the record.

Along this line, a new steel needle should always be used. Ideally, a single needle should play no more than one or two sides of a record before it is changed. A worn needle will slow down (and ruin) the record.

The record should be in good condition. A worn record will often slow down the turntable.

As for mechanical problems, if this gramophone is in as-found condition, and its motor not been cleaned and lubricated, that could be your problem. Another issue might be the reproducer or "sound box," which might be in need of an overhaul.

If you're a do it yourself type person, you might want to invest in a copy of "The Compleat Talking Machine" by Eric Reiss, available from most well stocked book sellers, including -- http://www.amazon.com/Compleat-Talking- ... 1886606226 -- It provides step by step, illustrated instructions for servicing most gramophones/phonographs.

The nice thing about mechanical gramophones/phonographs is that they are almost always repairable.

HTH,
Joe

Thanks for the tips!

I noticed that if I crank it constantly while the needle is down, it will play all the way through. It actually sounds really good; I'm surprised how loud it is for something that runs without electricity!

I ordered a copy of The Compleat Talking Machine, so I'll try to learn what I'm doing before I take anything apart.

A guy I work with mentioned that the motor may have been slathered up in grease at the factory, and that grease will get gummy and sticky after 80+ years (I guess they never imagined these things lasting that long ). I figured what I'd do is take the motor apart (after I've gained a solid understanding of it from the book you recommended) cleaning off the old grease, and putting some new lubricant on. I have two questions about this:

1. What is the best chemical for removing that old grease? I have some ferocious gun cleaning solvents, but I was worried that they might be unnecessarily harsh.

2. What kind of lube should I put on the parts after they're cleaned off? Would lithium grease be good? I have plenty of oils for mechanical devices, but I don't want it to drip out over time.

Thanks!

Hi Konya:

If I remember right, the book provides information about the types of cleaning solutions, and lubricants that can be used, but I know that some restorers have their own favorites. Personally, I use WD-40 to free stuck parts, and spray on cleaners to clean metal surfaces. For oil, my favorite is transmission fluid, and for grease, I use Stay-Lube Disc Brake Bearing Grease, which is actually a medium viscosity grease and does a great job with springs and gears.

One thing to note--and I'm not sure if this applies to your motor--in some cases fiber gears were installed. Unlike metal gears, they should not be oiled or greased. (Wet lubrication softens them.) You can easily tell if the gear is fiber since it looks like it was made out of plastic.

Good luck with your project.

Joe

Hi Joe,
I have used (now CRC) Stay Lube Moly-Graph grease, for 40 years on fiber gears--no problem, that I am aware of ??
Very light coating, combined with 20 wt oil--stays moist for years--
Ron Rich

Hi Ron:

I'm not sure if the gears used in the 1920s to early 1950s wind-up portables were different than those used in electric motors. I do know that I used oil on one of the gears of a Birch portable, circa late 1930s, I owned. After about a year, the gear started to separate. I think it was a laminate material, made from cloth and glue, as explained here --

http://books.google.com/books?id=hVTcbL ... hs&f=false



It's possible that molly graph is viscous enough not to saturate the gear. I've used dry graphite on fiber gears, or have left them be un-lubed just to play safe.

Joe

Joe,
Thanks--
Ron Rich