Seeburg 222 jukebox/hideaway receiver wiring differences

Just wondered if anyone has converted the mains input wiring of a TSU1 hideaway receiver to work in a 222 jukebox.I found an old article from someone who had done exactly this but it was many years ago and their email details are no longer valid.I have tried the hideaway receiver in the jukebox and the valves light up but the power isnt getting to the mech motor.The wiring probabl;y is straightforward to someone used to working on these but that isnt me.Any help would be appreciated.Link to pics of the J507 socket in question and of the relevant pages in the manual:
http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd ... 45a6b175fb

Hi Mick,
Got a service Manual--it's usually shown there in. The motor run circuit in a hideaway, and a phono, should be exactly the same--the TSU-1 is NOT a hideaway model--they are all even numbered, in the TSR/TSU series. IF ( no manual here !), J507 is the "117 VAC" jack, all it's used for in the phono, is cabinet lighting--Service lamp in a TSU-4 hideaway model. I THINK that it is NOT switched in a hideaway. Ron Rich

Thanks for reply Ron.The pics in link are of the wiring to the sockets that are marked j507 on each receiver.You will see that the one that was in the juke is just the mains out to the flo tubes, the other has 4 wired pins and I can only assume that j507 went to a switch on the hideaway(no on/off switch on the rear of the receiver).I do have the manual thats where I got the pics of diagrams showing the differences.
Mick

Mick,
You have me confused--"J507" may NOT be the same thing on both units--often times the socket numbering designations change from model to model. If there is a "117 VAC socket" ( two connections, with screws--wired side--one gold colored, the other silver) this is the AC for the lamps on the -1, and the ( MAX 60 watt ) "service lamp" ( switched "automatically by the hideaway cover--you HOPE ! if not, it IS a fire hazard !) I don't know how it is accomplished on a H222, but all hideaways, If there is power to light up the tubes (valves), there should be power to run the motor. The same motor control circuits apply to all hideaways, and standard phonos, from the K/L models to the SMC models. -- Ron Rich

Mick, as addendum to our PM exchange I suggest trying this:

Remove the mains plug.

Plug the mech cables into the TSU-4.

Look at this pic of the scan assembly: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=121 Lift the ADD solenoid. It is the higher one -at the right. The two leafs contacts should close firmly. this is a good time to check the for pitting-burns and clean as necessary.

Plug in the mains. The mech motor should turn and scan or if manually tripped, it should detent and bring up the record lift arm. It should be able to scan out and come to a stop. As I had mentioned, the AC motor control is the same in a hideaway as floor model ( i am using a TSR-3 in an HVL on location) so in controlling the motor the main difference is the lack of a set of contacts in a credit unit to trigger the ADD solenoid in the scan assembly.

Rob

Ron Rich wrote:Mick,
this is the AC for the lamps on the -1, and the ( MAX 60 watt ) "service lamp" ( switched "automatically by the hideaway cover--you HOPE ! if not, it IS a fire hazard !) I don't know how it is accomplished on a H222, Ron Rich

Ron As far as i know all the hideaways other than HV-HVL use a NC button to shut the service lamp. The V-VL used a 15 w fluorescent with a toggle switch.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=63

The light sw is just to the left of the main switch that protrudes through the cover. The black button is for the monitor speaker. One odd thing is that there is a red button (N.O.) to trip the mech in either play or scan mode on the service sw assembly. This doesn't work with the TSR-3. There must be an additional wire added to the service sw plug. I thought of adding that function, but so-far....

Rob

Rob

Hi Rob, and All,
Scan start in a Hideaway model is accomplished by contacts in the stepper, the same as when a stepper, in a stepper equipped phonograph, is operated.
The photo you put up as an example of the scan control assembly shows signs of miss-adjustment. The "long blade" seems to have been bent toward the nylon actuator, which itself appears to have been burned slightly, at least.
Those units should be adjusted so that when the sub ratchet coil is powered, during the last cycle, the contacts REMAIN closed, with enough force to provide a good contact, till the coil power is removed. If not adjusted as so, the contacts will pit/burn, heat up the long blade which will in turn "melt" the nylon, as can be seen in that photo. Also--the .01 cap on the switch blades MUST be (there, and) good !
I don't remember one hideaway model from the next---also, I do not think I have ever seen the HV/HVL cabinets. The fluorescent lamp sounds as if it was a good choice--wonder why they went back to the incandescent?
I recently "converted" a HLPC to a HSMC unit, using my new Gen 2 MCU--it is running 12, 3W-1, WOM's, in an Italian Restaurant, 7 days a week-four PM, till midnight ( or two AM, Friday, and Saturdays). Owner says he has had ZERO "complaints" since I did this 7-8 months ago--
Ron Rich

Ron is correct about the bend in the blades here. As received, the nylon actuator was melted as shown. I have replacement assemblies but since I install a P&B 120 vac relay to control both motor and tube heaters in all these units, i just depitted and formed the blades to work correctly. It was in heavy service w20 wallboxes from Oct 1998 till the main tran was destroyed by water leaking into the restaurant's A-C ducts and, of course, into my machine in Feb 2011. My agreement with locations holds them responsible for vandalism or "stupid-negligent damage". This was costly, It caused them to finally fix the leak.

That TSU was replaced. I may not repair the damaged one as there are several spares and my days of running vinyl are (hopefully) ending....at some point.

Rob

Rob the juke came missing the credit unit.I bought the freeplay/credit unit modern replacement from a US Ebay seller.Credit light is on and latch solenoid comes on when I press a selection key.The solenoid clicks when I move the scan switch to scan but because the receivers are wired differently it doesnt make the mech motor come on.I will follow the extra wires on J507 internally and report where they end up.I noticed from the manual that a juke mech is a 160ST2,hideaway version is 160ST3.They must be different in some respect?I appreciate where Ron says J507 wasnt standardised and that in the juke it was just a standard mains out to the lighting but the hideaway J507 is an 8 pin socket,I have found the 110v pins of this socket which I assume were for a small internal light for the operator to see inside the hideaway but there are 2 pins with extra wiring.The hideaway must have had an extra plug that used this socket?I bought the hideaway receiver from an Ebay seller a long way from me(too far to go and pick it up) because it included the 222 amp(the item I actually wanted)and he wouldnt split them.At that time the hideaway was complete and working as far as the mech would scan and trip manually,as he didnt have a wallbox he couldnt test if it selected ok or not.I reckon the missing plug that went into the J507 stayed with the hideaway when he parted it out.
Mick

Sorry forgot in answer to Robs suggestion if I close the add solenoid contacts the mech doesnt scan.
Mick

mickf wrote:Sorry forgot in answer to Robs suggestion if I close the add solenoid contacts the mech doesnt scan.
Mick

Ok, looking at the schematic you sent and the pic of TSU-4 -you have to get power from Pin 3 on J507 to Pin 5 of the same plug. Since you don't have the plug that is supposed to go there I'd just jump it. that should get the mech and amp supply powered.

The remaining question is whether the stepper or service sw actuate the Add solenoid on the scan.

Rob

Rob I had a sneaking suspicion that originally in the hideaway that socket went to a switch that did just that but didnt have the have brain or bottle to risk trying it.Will get chance to try it tomorrow and report back.
Many thanks!
Mick

Didnt do what I expected.I can hear the solenoid working when I go to scan but still no power to motor.
Mick

Mick,
Motor power should be the same for a hideaway or a standard phono ?? Is the 5U4 being energized when the scan control points are closed ?? Ron Rich

mickf wrote:Didnt do what I expected.I can hear the solenoid working when I go to scan but still no power to motor.
Mick

So, we are now down to basic continuity.

With power on and scan contacts closed; do you have mains voltage at pins 8&10 on J502 (the 11 pin plug) on the chassis side?

Did you jump the correct pins 3&5 on J507? On your TSu-4 pic Pin 3 is the one with the red/black cloth wire and the slate gray wire from the fuse holder. Pin 5 is a thick white or light gray.

If you have mains at J502 but not at the mech is indicates either a broken wire in the harness, a defective reversing switch or bad motor. Do you feel any vibration in the motor. Does it try to turn if you turn the coupling by hand?

This is a simple matter. It just take a bit of slogging through the tracing.

BTW: I see you are in the UK, how do you have this machine powered?

Rob