Seeburg S100 Motor noise / amplifier performance

Hi folks, well my 1967 S100 is now up and running again and playing music, it's really cool when you play that first record after spending a week fault finding. I think I would still be looking for the first fault had it not been for the efforts of Ron and Tony - thanks guys.
Anyway although it is now running it does not sound too good. I am sure part of it is down to not having the right volume control but also the motor hums a lot and this gets passed through to the record and picked up and amplified. Is this normal on these units? I know it's 40 years old but am surprised that there is so much motor noise. I am also surprised that there is no isolation between the record and the alluminium platter - should there be some sort of rubber isolator here?
Is the amplifier / speaker combo known to be less than ideal on these? There is no tweeter - just two 12 inch drivers so I am not too surpised that the treble is lacking but there is nothing at all above about 3 KHz (guess on my part).
All thoughts would be welcomed.
Greebling.

My guess is that the amplifier is in serious need of a recapping for all of the electrolytic capacitors. As to hum, the turntable is mounted to the drive shaft by a pair of roller bearings and driven by a pair of rubber bushings, all of which are inside the turntable and very difficult to service if bad. The rubber bushings can get hard due to age. In addition, the motor is isolated from the driveshaft by another rubber drive bushing which can harden with age. This one is straightforward to replace, and there is a new one for auction on ebay right now. The speakers were originally 'full range' and may have been replaced with something else. However, it may also be a good idea to add tweeters (if you decide to do so, consult the SE100 service manual for the correct crossover capacitor value), or to replace the SAM1 amplifier with a TSA4 or TSA5 (can't remember which one, but they're all compatible), which was the stereo amplifier in production at the same time as the S100.

Cheers,

Tony Miller

Hi Tony, thanks for the response. I think the recapping may be the place to start but I might hold on and get a stereo amp. I have considered changing the whole thing, it would be quite easy to build a new amp in to the original chassis so it looks right but has "modern" performance. I am also toying with the idea of replacing the speaker units with something better. I think I will bring a half decent speaker home from the office tomorrow and see what that sounds like and take it from there. I have let the motor run for a while and it seems to be a bit better, whether that's because the new oil has got in there properly or because the mounts have softened a bit with the heat I don't know. I will see if I can get the isolator off ebay, it might be a good starting point.
Thanks Again.

I would check the needles/pressure, for "motor noise"--What color is the needle "wedge" ? Ron Rich

Hi Ron, I have fitted 2 brand new stylii, they are yellow in colour, the only ones I could find. I had tried backing off the stylus pressure, which seemed to help a bit. Following Tony's advise I checked the coupling from the motor to the worm drive, I thought it was metal as it is so hard. I will buy a new one when I have some more money and see if that helps, it certainly won't do any harm.
I will mess about with the amp and speakers today and see if I can make it sound a bit better.
All the best,
1/2er

Both the coupling and the stylii, are probably the most of your problem--see page 15 of my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide" for an explaination of "needle problems"--see page 27, for proper installation of the motor coupler. Ron Rich

Hi Ron, I got my copy of your book today, I bought that and Tony's one from Oliver in Germany - very fast delivery. I am sure the coupling is not helping, it really is as hard as rock. I have got it sounding a lot better by changing some caps in the amp, adding a tweeter and fixing a wiring / connector problem where the RCA's go in to the amp. I need the proper volume control though as my jury rigged solution will do for now but the loudness compensation is fixed rather than variable. I am struggling to find the right pot with the two taps. Shouldn't be spending any money on it now anyways or the Wife might pull my face off.
Keep smiling....

Thanks for buying the book--Vern Tisdsdale sells a pot that should work (listed as a TSA-SHP pot)--use 1/2 of it if you have the SAM amp.--when you have some money that your wife won't miss ! http://www.verntisdale.com Ron