Seeburg hf100r - Part Inquiry

I am looking for a new or NOS Trip Solenoid 245578 for my Seeburg hf100.
I have been looking and can not seem to find any in the Jukebox parts stores online, and only 1 on eBay.

Any suggestions?

Ron,
PM me--- I have it in stock--
Ron Rich

I have tried testing the trip solenoid as best as I could but does not seem to be working.
Anyone have any suggestions as to a better way to test if this solenoid is good or not?

rvalkenburg wrote:I have tried testing the trip solenoid as best as I could but does not seem to be working.
Anyone have any suggestions as to a better way to test if this solenoid is good or not?

Unplug the cable from the mechanism to the selection receiver. Then in the mech, trace the two wires from the trip coil (blk&wht) over to the terminal strip and measure with an ohmmeter.

Rob

So I metered out the Trip Solenoid finally and came out fine, ohm wise.. I also did an old pinball machine trick is take the solenoid out and tripped it with a 9v battery which it did activate the coil, so the Trip Solenoid seems to be in working order, just need to find out why it is not engaging to pick up or rejecting 45's.

The selector works and energizes the pins correctly, I completely stripped down the pinbank and cleaned it and had to resolder 5 wires. The odd thing is that I was checking all of the adjustments, per the manual and got to the part for the Contact Bank Alignment where you align L & R with A1 & A2 and then K9 & K10. First I cannot get the pins to touch both L & R as they show in the manual when on A1/A2 but I center it as much as possible but then when I move to K9/K10 the alignment is completely off. I will have to go back and look at the Magazine & Transfer Arm Adjustments again tomorrow with the mechanics out.

.....so the Trip Solenoid seems to be in working order, just need to find out why it is not engaging to pick up or rejecting 45's

Seeburg switches coils at the ground (negative) terminal. there should be approx 25vac at both points where the coil is soldered. In scan mode the contact block's two "readout" pins will thus have that same voltage depending which direction the mech is scanning. With the service switches in normal-play position take a clip lead and touch it to the connections to those readout contacts under the readout block the other end to ground (mech chassis).. The mech should trip on one or the other.

If it trips then the block's contact pins are not hitting the selected memory pins. If it fails to trip there is a possibility that one set of contacts on either the of the sets of can switches is not closing as it should.. These contacts alternately disconnect the reject and mech trip switches during scan and connect the readout block contacts during scan. The contacts on the reversing switch may be defective too -but this is rare

It all starts with the presence of 25 volts AC at the mech and trip coil.

Rob

I am unable to get 25VAC at the trip solenoid. Is this a cap issue? I am still waiting for my kit to come in but just trying to figure out if this is a mechanical issue (contacts). I have re-adjusted and verified all of the contacts on the CAM Switches, the Clutch & Reset Switches, Clamp Arm Switch, Reversing Switch are spaced properly during Scan, Transfer & Play. They are also all clean.

The contact block has been cleaned and spring pressure verified for the Selector & Dressing contacts. I also replaced the both plungers & springs in both Cancel Coils as 1 was missing a spring (bought a pair).

When you add a coin (25c) you receive credits for selections so the credit and cancel unit is working.
When you make a selection, the proper PIN in the Pinbank is turned on and the mech starts to scan, so mechanically and electrically that process is working.
Unlike the Scan Twice issue alot of people have, the mech will keep going forever until I manually reset the PIN.
You are able to manually play a record using the Service Switch to align the mech and manually lifting the Release Lever but when the record is done it will not reject it either.

Any direction? I have been going through the WSR7-L6 schematic for the past 2 days tracing out and am at a lose.

Ron,
Go thru the mechanism schematic--and/or read my Seeburg Mechanism Guide--Simple circuit 25 VAC on the mech, goes straight to the coil--ground supplied either by the sensor on the frog, or reject switch--all thru switches on mech. Ron Rich

I have gone thru the entire mech schematic pg 2280 in the service manual, everything has tight solder joints and every wire is connected where it should be, 100%. There are no breaks in any of the mech wires either, toned them out to validate the wire itself was good.

So now I am getting 25w at the trip solenoid when a selection is made and scanning but will not pickup the 45. If you play a 45 manually, using the service switch, when the trip switch hits the end I am now seeing 25w at the trip solenoid as well but will not reject the record. So I am now back to the Trip Solenoid not working.

If I am getting 25w during scan and 25w when the Trip Switch is engaged during end of play, you would agree that the issue is the Trip Solenoid? I have adjusted the solenoid as per the Service Manual and still nothing. Just so I have checked everything, the white wire from the Trip Solenoid should be on terminal 4 (25w power line from receiver), and the black wire to terminal 5 (goes to the CAM contact V & clutch switch contact D)? I am asking because this seems to be a replacement Solenoid as it has a break in both wires (wire nuts) and new leads connected to the terminal block, so I am assuming someone replaced this prior to me getting the unit.

It would have been helpful to mention the coil having been replaced earlier.

I don't know the exact impedance for that model as Seeburg used several types. I can tell you that the LPC used approx 7.2 ohms and that operated on 25vac. The models that used a 2050 for trip (Tormat) were 250 ohms and work at 150vac.

Turn power off, disconnect one lead and measure the impedance. If appreciably more than what the LPC uses, it means some tinkerer put the wrong coil in.

Rob/NYC

Well I did not initially notice it, but after going through the mech in great detail I first saw the Solenoid was actually upside down and that the original colored wires are still on the terminal but are connected to different color wire going into a 245578-2 solenoid.

The hf100r manual shows a part #245159 and the one installed is 245578-2, I am assuming this is my problem. I have not been able to find any information as to the specs for the 245159 solenoid or even find someone selling one. What is the proper Trip Solenoid for the hf100r and where can I get one? Ron do you have the right solenoid for the hf100r?

Rob, Ron, and all,
All Seeburgs use a 6-7 ohm coil except the tube (2D21-2050) fired units, from the V thru the DS models, which use the 250 ohm DC coil. The LPC models, while they still had the tube, did not directly fire the coil with the tube, but fired a relay, which then fired the 25 vac coil. There are a couple of different part numbers listed for that coil, in different parts manuals. The differences are wire lead length, and for the HSC's, lead dressing. There are also 50 cycle, and 60 cycle versions, with different numbers. The "last few years" of production, they went to a 50-60 cycle coil in all production, and "subbed" this one for all previous numbers.
In all cases using the 25 vac, power, the 50 cycle coil can be used--I would not use a 60 cycle coil where 50 was supplied.
If your coil "reads right", but still won't fire, check the NC section, of your service switch, as the circuit goes thru it (it "opens the circuit"{on Tormat equipped models, it "grounds out" the circuit, for the same reason}, so that the route man can change records without it tripping on selected pins).
Ron Rich

Ron.
Just saw your post--just measure the coil--6-7 ohms, it's OK ! Over 8, and I'd guess a new coil was necessary-- I don't have all the part numbers they used, handy-- Ron Rich

Thank you for your help....

I tested the solenoid this morning and it reads out 6.4 ohms so based on your information is ok.
Now this morning I noticed that I am no longer seeing 25VAC at the Trip Switch while playing manually as I did last night. Nothing else has changed except for the use of the Service Switch to get me to that record that I selected to manually play.

I will tear down the service switch again and work from there.

Thanks again.

Ron,
If you are not seeing 25vac (to ground) at the trip switch when playing--are you seeing it on the white wire of the coil terminal ? If it's not there, either you have an open cable, plug or mech cable. Ron Rich