Rowe Diplomat jan 200 transfer motor runs a 360

I just finished resurrecting a Rowe Ami Diplomat Jan 200 from the dead. A quirky development just started with the record changer model 1100. What happens occasionally is that after the “a” side of a record is done playing and the transfer arm puts the record back in the magazine the transfer motor does not stop. Instead it continues to rotate which causes the transfer arm to pick up the same record and then play the “b” side. During all this the hub shift coil stays energized. I’m guessing that a contact is not being made somewhere, but what’s odd, is that this happens only to specific selections. (ex. J3 C2 Q1 and a couple others) I would appreciate any ideas or thoughts that anyone cares to share.
Thanks! Rich in Minnesota

Rich,
When was the last time the armature/clutch on that motor was oiled ? The armature must "fly out" and stop the gears from turning instantly, or a carry over switch will cause it to continue running-- Ron Rich

Hi Ron, That makes sense. I'm sure it hasn't been oiled in a looong time.
I just aquired the box and the previous owner had it for twenty years but never could get it running.
I have a manual but the lubrication chart doesn't show what you speak of.
Could you explain where and how to oil the armature/clutch.
I'm a newbie at this and I've learned alot so far, but I still have much to learn.
Thank you for your time,
Rich

Hi Rich,
Well, what can I say--"Rowe" was never too "good" about lubrication. Some of their books said something to the effect that no lubrication was needed for five years--newer books say "no lubrication is needed". After having some real problems with a CD unit, I got to know a Rowe engineer fairly well, and asked him why the books said that. He admitted that it was not true, and said that the "marketing dept. insisted on that being there-- "
Going from my confuzed memory, it seems that there were two different brand motors used there--in either case, what you need to do is look at the "free end" of the armature--push it inward with your finger, and it must "pop out". There should be holes somewhere in both castings, or cover plates that have an oil wick behind them. You will need a "pointy" oilier, and you will need to saturate the oil wicks, with SAE 20 Wt. ND oil. A drop or two on the armature shaft on both sides will help also--do not "over oil" or it will throw oil all over the records ! Have fun --it's hard to see/reach-- Ron Rich

Ron, John Rowe uses motors made by Multi-products: http://www.multiproducts.com/

If you are lucky, you have the open frame type (gears exposed) the early 1100 changers often had the same closed box type as used in K-Cont-2.

In any case lubing can be a PIA due to the fact that the motor oil pads on one side are blocked by the mounting plates.

There are three motors: Gripper, basket and turntable.

Gripper is on the left behind the microswitches.

Basket in under the mech. For this one it is best to remove the mech from cabinet (just three plugs).

Turntable is easy -there are oil hoses.

As Ron mentioned you'll need a hose type oiler and frankly, the best you are going to be able to do w/out actually removing the motors (not recommended) is to dope 'n dribble oil onto the bearings and move the motor armature a bit to permit some oil to be dribbled into the normally hidden bearing.

You should also oil the search motor -But be careful to keep oil off the pulley surfaces (if you have a belt type assembly. If you have a geared search unit a little Lithium or similar grease on those gears is a good idea.

A few drops on the turntable bearing and some more Lithium on the shaft of the stopping switch and gripper toggle.

Some oil in the tonearm pivot is recommended.

As flimsy as these mechs appear, they do hold up well if kept well lubed. The two MM1 hideaways I have in service each have well over one million plays each. Both have had gripper motors replaced but both have original (AFAIK) basket and TT motors.

Rob/NYC

Thanks Ron & Rob for your input. Here is where I'm at. I pulled the mechanism from the box to work on it. To get to the motor I needed to remove the two mounting plates that held the eight micro switches. I was then able to remove the motor from its mounting plate. The motor is a sealed unit. I drilled out the hollow rivets to get inside. The motor is just a gear box with a Rectifier (that consists of a capacitor and a resistor) attached to it. I degreased and then re-lubricated the motor (gear box). Screwed on the rectifier and reattached it to the mounting plate. I replaced all the micro switches since they were assessable made sure that they were properly adjusted, and then I put everything back together. The result is the same issue. The mechanism plays A side and then the B side sometimes. What is weird is that it only does it on certain selections. Not all selections are subject to this strange behavior. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm now familiar with the mechanism and am willing to try anything! Thanks all, Rich

Rich,
Upon re-reading all posts, and thinking about it for awhile, I am wondering about a couple of things--
I know very little about that model --
After playing the B side, does the mech proceed to operate correctly ?
Is it possible that both (side) "pins" on the "search unit" are being pushed out, when this happens ?
Does the shift coil stay energized during either side play ?
Also--a "rectifier/cap" on the motor--I thought it was an AC motor ?
Ron

Hi Ron, Here are the answers to your questions.
The mechanism does operate correctly after playing the B side.
The push pins on the search unit are designed in such a way that both sides of a record cannot be accidently selected.
The shift coil does stay energized after the A side of a record is played, and I think that is why the transfer motor keeps rotating, and thus picks up the B side of the record.
I also think the secret to my problem is to figure out why the shift coil is staying energized.
The playing of both sides of a record is only occurring on the low end selections, Selections 1,2 and 3. Selections 4 thru 0 are not affected.
The answer to the last question. The transfer motor is only a gear box that is energized by the rectifier.
Thanks again! I really do appreciate your input.
Rich

First-off, that is an AC motor. If there is a resistor and cap across the stator coil it is there to squelch kick back from the coil when the motor is switched off.

Since you say that this happens only on certain letter/number selections -have you removed the search unit while keeping it connected and actually made selections to be certain that multiple pins are not punched, and that there are no pins that are not fully reset. I had a similar problem back in 1987 with one of the MM1 hideaways. the problem was excessive wear in the sleeve bearing on the stopping/reset assembly. There was also heavy wear on the plastic slide 'fingers' that catch selected pins. Since the wear on the assembly bearing caused excessive play, the pins were not being reset fully-flush and the worn 'fingers' were sometimes getting caught on partially reset pins. This happened mostly after the "A" side had been played. it seemed that if the assembly was scanning there was enough speed and force that the unit would just hop the partially reset pins but get caught at other times.

While you have the search unit off check the continuity of the micro switches on the stopping assembly.

Next question: The 'shifter' you refer to, is that the A-B toggle or the 33-45 coil on the turntable. you had called it a "hub shift" coil.

In either case try removing -both- lugs from whatever coil you are talking about. I had one bizarre problem on an MM2 with an intermittent short-to-ground on the toggle shifter coil that would cause the mech to hop one slot just after it detented.

As an experiment: make a selection on one of the defective slots but disconnect the gripper motor (remove a spade lug from the coil) use an Allen wrench to turn the cam through its grip-to-play cycle. Then continue turning till the record is either returned to the basket and the mech scans or you keep turning and the other side is played. It would be a big help if you connect either a 28volt bulb or an analog meter across the two wires going to the gripper motor (while one is disconnected from the motor) the idea is to finally see if current to the motor is being stopped at the proper point and thus the motor is coasting, or if there is an electrical fault. try this on several selections.

Sorry for all the detail here, but these early 1100's were a bit of a kludge when it came to the number of micro switches and timing. I modified the MM1's I use to get down to four micros on one unit and three on the other.

Rob

SUCCESS! First of all I want to thank Rob & Ron for checking in with me and pointing me in the right direction. I started out by verifying that the search unit was not punching double pins and that is when I made the discovery. The problem was with the stopping switch assembly. When an "A" side pin was found and then the pin was reset the assembly advances forward. The problem was that the advancement wasn't actuating the stopping switch so the mechanism would play the "B" side of the record. I'm sure just a minor adjustment was needed, but I had some new micro switches so I just replaced the old switches and then made sure the stopping switch assembly was properly adjusted. Problem fixed! Thanks again Ron and Rob! This is a great forum! Rich