Pal Junior portable

I picked up this Pal Jr pretty cheaply the other day. It had an electric pick-up replacing the tonearm, but otherwise, isn't a bad little portable. It has a small Thorens motor, so i should imaging the soundbox was probably one of those unmarked Thorens jobs, with a one piece tonearm. Has anyone heard of these before? I don't know if it's an Ozzy made model or fully imported.
The case is a nice blue art deco design fabric(?) with an art nouveau pattern on the lid. There's a screw hole that was for a clip for the toneamrm to be held by, and another at the L/h rear, which I guess was for a needle cup with a spring loaded lid??
If anyone has a pic of one of these, or an ad, I'd appreciate a look.

I must admit I am not fond of the PAL portables, I would say they are next to worthless. I have repaired many of them for people and they are so underpowered. The tone arm should be a generic or thorens type of arm and reproducer.

This machine probably has the notorious single spring motor which is held together with scews and c-clips. I have alot of people pick them up on ebay and bring them to me for repair. I always advise get a nice Victrola VV-50 or another Victrola suitcase model. Stay away from the PAL, BIRCH models. I would recommend the EDISON P-1 OR P-2 only for collection purposed since they are rare....but not for everyday playing.

This fabrikoid stinks like poop. I know they are raunchy.

Thanks phonotech. Since posting this, I managed to pick up a thorens arm & soundbox for it. It does have the small thorens motor that's pretty common in most off brand portables & cameraphones like the peter pan I haven't found it really underpowered though. It plays 10" records quite well. I actually bought it cheap for the electric pick-up that was on it when I bought it, and was going to use the motor for parts. Once I got it, it was in near perfect condition, so I decided to complete the machine instead. I know it's not the same quality as a victor/hmv portable, but I've got plenty of HMV's, so this made a good variation for my collection. We don't see too many Victor's out here in oz, but I probably wouldn't buy one anyway. Theres to much trouble with crumbling pot metal in the US machines for my liking

shane wrote: We don't see too many Victor's out here in oz, but I probably wouldn't buy one anyway. Theres to much trouble with crumbling pot metal in the US machines for my liking

Hi Shane:

Victor didn't use pot metal until after the introduction of the Orthophonic range, in late 1925. That said, if you ever come across a nice VV-50 portable at a good price, grab it! They are high quality portables and do a great job playing acoustic era records, once the normally frozen #2 sound box has been restored.

As for the Orthophonic era portables, I'd recommend the VV-2-55. I've owned three over the past 30 years, and in all cases, the sound boxes were in perfect condition with no signs of cracks, swelling, etc. For whatever reason, the pot metal manufactured during this period is relatively stable. Even the tone arm pivots, though delicate, were not impacted by the problems associated with the cabinet models. In terms of sound quality, the 2-55 has a slightly greater range than the HMV 102, and projects more of a "sound stage" effect, probably due to the fact that the horn is larger, as is the reflective surface of the lid. The trade-off, of course, is increased weight and bulkiness.

Joe is correct:

The Victrola VV-50 is one of the best little portables you will find, the nice Victrola #2 when restored is not pot metal, but a nice reproducer that reproduces most acoustic age recording quite well.

Also, I agree the VV 2-55 is a nice portable, but goodness they are getting so expensive. They are nice to especially play recordings after 1925, the age of the electric recordings. I have a VV 1-70 which is a tabletop, I am telling anyone to stay away from this machine, it is a cute art deco table model and not as common as many of the models, however, the problem is in the back bracket which is pot metal and prone to breakage. I am not sure if the reproduction brackets are even made for the VV 1-70. Also, this machine was supposed to be a Orthophonic model, but equipped with a larger Victrola #4 reproducer which contained a mica diaphragm, and all the ones I have seen are pot metal, and cracked. I would say this reproducer is not Orthophonic. If you want a Nice tabletop Orthophonic I recommend the VV 1-90, while rare this machine can put out a tune, while blending with wood furniture in your home.

Finally, I know I type too much, but I nice Full Size Orthophonic credenza is the way to go, I seen one one time down in Tennessee, the older gentleman back when I was 8 back in 1981, played several records on it, he wound it up, and was totally acoustic but sounded like an "electric machine".

The Victor 10-50 is supposed to sound even better than the credenza, but if you ever get the chance to hear one, the HMV 202/3 re-entrants sound better than anything victor ever made. I've got the 202, and the horn is 2 feet longer than the 10-50's, and considerably bigger at the mouth as well. I think the credenza comes in between the HMV 163 & 193/4 re-entrant's for horn size, and the 10-50 is about the same as the 193/4. From memory, the credenza has a 6 foot horn, and the 10-50's is 7 feet.

shane wrote:The Victor 10-50 is supposed to sound even better than the credenza, but if you ever get the chance to hear one, the HMV 202/3 re-entrants sound better than anything victor ever made. I've got the 202, and the horn is 2 feet longer than the 10-50's, and considerably bigger at the mouth as well. I think the credenza comes in between the HMV 163 & 193/4 re-entrant's for horn size, and the 10-50 is about the same as the 193/4. From memory, the credenza has a 6 foot horn, and the 10-50's is 7 feet.

Hi Shane:

Yes, the Credenza's horn is six feet long, measured from the base of the sound box to the horn's mouth. Having listened to Carsten's 10-50, I can attest to the fact that it is not only louder than the Credenza, but pumps out a richer, deeper bass . I remember that this was especially noticeable when a recording of an organ solo was played. Because of the horn's larger mouth area, and perhaps the fact that the "heart" is positioned above ear level when sitting in front of it, it also has greater stage presence--more of a 3D effect.

It stands to reason that the deluxe HMV re-entrants would have a greater range than the US-built models, since they were fitted with longer horns. In addition, the connections between all of the moveable parts--tone arm pivots, base of tone arm, etc.--represented an improved design over the earlier-technology Victor models, which were prone to air leaks in these joints unless re-sealed occasionally with fresh grease.

The only thing I question was the Gramophone Co.'s decision to replace the Orthophonic (#5) sound box with the HMV #5a. I've listened to a number of restored examples of both types of sound boxes, and have found that the 5a is not quite up to the earlier Orthophonic sound box in terms of volume, as well as "fullness." The difference is especially noticeable on the smaller HMV gramophones. Before I sold my HMV 102, a few years ago, I regularly played it using the Orthophonic sound box from my (mid-size) VV-4-40. The difference was amazing, in spite of the fact that the 5a had been carefully overhauled, and the Orthophonic sound box was/is, more or less, as-is--though in excellent sonic condition, from what I can tell.

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ADDED Sunday, Dec. 16th

Phonotek73 wrote:I have a VV 1-70 which is a tabletop, ... supposed to be a Orthophonic model, but equipped with a larger Victrola #4 reproducer which contained a mica diaphragm, and all the ones I have seen are pot metal, and cracked. I would say this reproducer is not Orthophonic...

... If you want a Nice tabletop Orthophonic I recommend the VV 1-90, while rare this machine can put out a tune, while blending with wood furniture in your home.

Yes, the pot metal Victor #4 sound boxes used on the 1-70, as well as the 2-60 portable, are normally found in rough condition today. The earlier, but short lived VV-1-5 portable--which is similar to the HMV 101 but equipped with a straight tone arm--had the all-brass #4, which unfortunately for today's collectors, was phased out by Victor in favor of the pot metal ones.


In spite of the 1-70's relative high (original) selling price of $50 -- http://victor-victrola.com/1-70.htm -- Victor did not consider it worthy of the Orthophonic technology, but relegated that to the more expensive ($75) VV-1-90, which was also equipped with the smallest folded horn that Victor produced -- http://victor-victrola.com/1-90.htm.

In an earlier string, I posted some images of the 1-90, which I culled from the site of a Japanese collector, showing the 1-90's folded horn:




I've only come across one 1-90 during the past 30 years, at an antiques mall in Minnesota. I've seen numerous 1-70s, though, and would love to have one. Unfortunately, in my area, even scratched up crumbling examples are normally priced in the $500 range--about the price of a good condition mid-size Orthophonic cabinet model.