The jukebox gods hate me... (Rowe MM-6 Rebuild)

Interesting you say this. The first MM-6 I owned (my dad owned) back in the late 80's-early 90's slapped records down. I cringe each and every time I see it now, on youtube videos and such. I actually DID have the old juke ruin 4 of my records - put a split in the record from the outer edge inward - in varying length

I'm really surprised to read this, I've never seen or heard of records getting cracked in this mech. My two machines on location have close to a million plays between them over the last 20+ years and there has never been a problem. I suppose a very brittle styrene record might crack -I do try to avoid those types of records as they turn into sandpaper and attack the styli.

Rob

Guys,
I have seen split records as described, on these before, but I attribute that to the "V" section of the gripper arm being "rough".
Also, on the early versions of that mech, that had the record guide way up high, I have seen the gripper arm "smack" records into the guide--not good for records, IMHO ! Ron Rich

Rob-NYC wrote:I'm really surprised to read this, I've never seen or heard of records getting cracked in this mech. My two machines on location have close to a million plays between them over the last 20+ years and there has never been a problem. I suppose a very brittle styrene record might crack -I do try to avoid those types of records as they turn into sandpaper and attack the styli.

Ron Rich wrote:Guys,
I have seen split records as described, on these before, but I attribute that to the "V" section of the gripper arm being "rough".
Also, on the early versions of that mech, that had the record guide way up high, I have seen the gripper arm "smack" records into the guide--not good for records, IMHO ! Ron Rich

It's certainly possible that it was something else, and not the 'slapping' that was causing it. (I have no way of checking now, as that juke was sadly sent to the dump in 2000..) The record that broke were the harder, thicker kind. (I am admittedly NOT familiar with vinyl types, etc. I do know that the ones that cracked were older records, thicker and stiffer.)

--Mike

Mike said..

The record that broke were the harder, thicker kind.

That was likely a styrene or reground plastic. The vinyl records are flexible. The plastic one are stiff and brittle.

Rob

This morning and early afternoon I took the (rest of) the mech outside, and gave it a good washing. It .. wasn't as thorough as I had originally wanted, but looks a million times better, I'm extremely pleased. Also too the magazine out and cleaned it (was careful not to damage the letters, gave it a nice bath. It sparkles now. I'm stopping here at the moment, as I have to run out to the store. However, by day's end, I expect to have the transfer motor/cam switches back attached, and am going to try to get as far as getting the transfer arm back on. Time will tell.

The only reason I'm posting is because I saw something in the manual that I was curious about, and wanted to get it written down before I forget -
On my toner arm, the cartridge is small, and slides into a casing. The casing is screwed into the tone arm, and the cartridge just sits in the casing. This is a little problematic, as the cartridge is very loose and will often fall out of it's shell/casing. (Happened a few times while the mech was still together and I was playing 45s.) Looking in the manual, it shows the cartridge as *one piece*, not two like I have. Anyone know the difference, why they were changed, or any other info on the differences here? (Type of cartridge, interchangeability, etc?)

--Mike

Hi Mike,
Sounds as if "someone" replaced the cart.--without seeing it, I can't tell, but you might look at needles4jukboxes.com and ID what-ever you have---
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Mike,
Sounds as if "someone" replaced the cart.--without seeing it, I can't tell, but you might look at needles4jukboxes.com and ID what-ever you have---
Ron Rich

Thinking that's the case. Here's a pic of the cartridge and it's ''shell'' - there's remnants of dried glue in the sleeve/case -


And, it turns out it's a good thing that I took the mech out to wash it. One of the things that I wanted to look at was the magazine belt - it always seemed to be loose when I had it in the cabinet. While putting the magazine back in, I noticed that the welds on the rear guide assembly were pretty much ripped through -

I'm going to take the Guide/Belt Assy in to my office, as there's a couple auto places that may be able to re-weld it for me.

Aside from the back assembly, I actually got a lot more done than I thought - transfer assembly, gears and transfer arm all in place, wiring cleaned up and in place.

--Mike

Sorry Mike--I do not re-call which cart. fits which Rowe/AMi model--like I said--look at needles-- Ron Rich

Mike, that looks like a Shure 44 series which is what Rowe used from MM-1 -on.

Here it is with Rowe branding:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=75

Just clean out some of the old glue and glue it back in.

Make sure the stylus faces downward when the arm is vertical and that the cart body is fully seated in the plastic cup.

Rob

Hi Mike,

"Interesting you say this. The first MM-6 I owned (my dad owned) back in the late 80's-early 90's slapped records down. I cringe each and every time I see it now, on youtube videos and such. I actually DID have the old juke ruin 4 of my records - put a split in the record from the outer edge inward - in varying length

I'm really surprised to read this, I've never seen or heard of records getting cracked in this mech. My two machines on location have close to a million plays between them over the last 20+ years and there has never been a problem. I suppose a very brittle styrene record might crack -I do try to avoid those types of records as they turn into sandpaper and attack the styli.

Rob"

The reason for the common problem on the 1100/1200 and R-84 onwards mechanisms for splitting records is that the gripper bow is being allowed to drop down below its normal resting position.

Whist you have the Gripper Bow Assembly (301-05147), you refered to back guide assembly off of the jukebox look at the small piece of plastic (on the very early mechanisms this was a peice of black fiber material) that is riveted onto the assemby, the end of gripper bow hits this plastic and holds it off above the records, if this is broken or worn then the bow drops and it clips all of the records. Just drill out the rivet and machine a suitable piece of plastic to suit, there will be marks on the guide to where the original plastic extened to.

You will need to get that welding done perfectly every one I have come across that had been rewelded, had problems with the belt trying to slip off or it catched on one side of the belt guides causing it to fray the belt.

As Rob says with the M44 cartridge just clean off the old glue and reglue it in place.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Rob-NYC wrote:Mike, that looks like a Shure 44 series which is what Rowe used from MM-1 -on.

Here it is with Rowe branding:
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=75

Just clean out some of the old glue and glue it back in.

Make sure the stylus faces downward when the arm is vertical and that the cart body is fully seated in the plastic cup.

Rob

Thanks Rob. As long as it's normally that way, then I won't worry about it - I'll glue it back together. (And, yeah, I'm aware that the needles goes on 'backwards', so to speak, since the tone-arms' on the OTHER SIDE.

ami-man wrote:The reason for the common problem on the 1100/1200 and R-84 onwards mechanisms for splitting records is that the gripper bow is being allowed to drop down below its normal resting position.

Whist you have the Gripper Bow Assembly (301-05147), you refered to back guide assembly off of the jukebox look at the small piece of plastic (on the very early mechanisms this was a peice of black fiber material) that is riveted onto the assemby, the end of gripper bow hits this plastic and holds it off above the records, if this is broken or worn then the bow drops and it clips all of the records. Just drill out the rivet and machine a suitable piece of plastic to suit, there will be marks on the guide to where the original plastic extened to.

This is possible - I can not remember there being a plastic stop on the old machine - however, it was also 25 years ago, so.. heh! I DO KNOW that my current one has that. (I actually brought it in to the office with me today. At lunch, I'm going to go have it re-welded.)

ami-man wrote:You will need to get that welding done perfectly every one I have come across that had been rewelded, had problems with the belt trying to slip off or it catched on one side of the belt guides causing it to fray the belt.

This is what it was doing when I picked the machine up - the belt was trying to ride off of the magazine studs (with the letters on them), and when I tried tightening the belt, the whole back arm would give way slightly. So, I figure that I'll try to get this one welded - if it still doesn't work after that, I'll hit you or one of the local suppliers up for a 'new' used one.

--Mike

Just an update -
Could not get the belt guide welded - it's aluminum, so the local shops wouldn't touch it. The metal specialty place that WOULD wanted $100 (USD) to patch it up. I went ahead a just purchased a guide from a local supplier, and it looks like I won't get it until next week. Don't want to reassemble anything else on the mech until the magazine is held in place.

Hi Mike,

I have worked on hundreds of the 1100/1200 mechanism and I have never seen any of belt guides (guide and belt support assembly) made out of alloy, they are usually steel that is plated and at its base it is brazed rather than welded.

It sounds as if your mechanism has been through the wars.

Back to the bench to test/repair some R-83 boards from Italy, and a couple of 125 watt amplifier from UK customers.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

ami-man wrote:It sounds as if your mechanism has been through the wars.

Yup. Going through this, it's obvious it was routed most (if not all) of its life. The fixes and 'hacks' I've seen (some of which I haven't posted here) remind me of my old days working in an arcade, and having to use duct-tape and fishing wire for fixes.

For example, one I want to ask about now -
The linkage, connecting the coil with the transfer-arm flip pins (the pins that extend for either 'A' or 'B' side), was replaced on mine with a paperclip.

Is it worth trying to find the proper linkage, or can I replace this with a bent hook from a local hardware store? (I can't get a picture tonight, will tomorrow sometime after I reassemble my belt guide.)

Saturday update!
The replacement belt guide assy arrived, and I must say, it's surprising the difference - this one IS heavier, and looks new. (As oppoed to the one that was ripped, where it looked heavily corroded.) Comparison image of the base:

This one fits and works perfect - no more record scraping on the fins on the back, and the belt rides straight.

So it was actually pretty quick getting everything else on -

Transfer arm went on smoothly, as did the stop switch assy and toner/turntable mounting plate. I followed the maintenance steps during re-assembly, so everything is nice and tight.

Now comes the step where I scratch my head and try to figure out what I missed. I took pictures of all the wire connections while dissassembling, to make sure I get wiring right while reassembly. However - I missed something somewhere. The magazine motor will turn as long as the detent switch (this switch allows the magazine motor to continue spinning until a record is centered above) is open - i.e. If I hold it open with my hand, the magazine will turn nicely. When a user makes a selection, or the tech pushes the maint switch to 'Scan', a coil pulls in the switch, allowing the magazine to spin. This coil's not getting power - likely a missed connection somewhere, d'oh.

If I manually trip the stop switches (what happens when the magazine turns and hits a user-selection), the transfer motor runs, and picks up a record, and plays it fine. So all that is good. (In fact, once I get the scan fixed, I'll grab a video of the tansfer arm - NO RECORD SLAP! Muhahaha!)

Taking a break now to look at the manual wiring for the detent coil wiring, and grab lunch. (It's rainy outside, so I'm stuck inside anyways, and I'd rather be working on the juke..)