AMI Rowe MM5 - won't reset selection, keeps repeating

I have an Ami Rowe MM5 jukebox. In general, it's in good shape. I have the repair manual.

This started recently. When the jukebox finds a selection, it stops and pulls the record correctly. It places the record on the platter and plays it correctly. When the record is done, the jukebox will pick up the record and put it back in the carousel. The carousel doesn't spin, the jukebox immediately pulls the same record again and plays it again. This will keep repeating indefinitely.

I noticed that the solenoid never fires, to push the selected pin back in. (That's why the same record keeps playing.) So, the pin stays out. If I manually push in the pin - the currently playing record is put back in the carousel, and the jukebox plays the next record. But the next record plays repeatedly.

I appreciate any comments or suggestions,
Thanks,

Mike

Hello Mike,

Welcome to the forum, can you please go into your profile and fill in your location, this will help with advice of where to get parts or find an engineer should you require further help.

I would suggest that you you check out the open relay contacts on S1 and S2 on the Search Unit and clean the contacts with a paper taper pulled through the contacts. The problem with more than likely be on the Stop Switch Assembly.

You will have to remove the search unit by removing the three large machine screws, the stop switch assembly is held in place by a large circlip. It is best to remove this in the A1 possition, so scan to A1, you will note that on the stop plate assembly gear selector is a 00 mark that is oposite a a notch in the framework that the search unit mounts onto. This mark and the A1 position forms the timing on the mechanism/carousel.

One the stop switch assembly is removed check the switches for operation, also check the soldered connections into the slip rings on the back of the assembly that the switches connect into for dry joints (cold joints USA) the slip rings can be cleaned with a pencil rubber (eraser).

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

As Alan mentioned, the slipring contacts on the stop switch are most often the culprit.

I have two ancient MM-1 hideaways in service. When I start to get reports of "instant replays" that is always the cause.

There exists the possibility that one microswitch on the cam assembly might be faulty.

BTW: These mechs and motors need a thorough oiling. A 20wt oil is recommended and you will need to remove the mech to properly lube the magazine motor.

Rob/NYC

Hello Mike,

I totally disagree with Rob on the lubrication of these mechanisms, I have been servicing these mechanisms for over 33 years.

They do need lubrication but only sparingly and only in pre defined areas.

The gripper bow assembly only requires high melting point grease in the trunion pivot point casting sockets.

The transfer and magazine motor just needs a spot of oil on the motor oil pads.
The turntable motor needs a drop of oil in its top bearing pad and into the oil tube for the bottom brearing.

The idler wheel linkage pivot points need a spot of oil and a spot on the turntable shaft.

The index linkage pivot points could also be oiled, but I just clean them.

Oil does for a time makes for a quieter machine it also causes wear with any dirt brought into the cabinet.

Other makes and models of jukeboxes totally rely on generous lubrication.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan, the reality is that -all- gear faces and bearings, cam lobes and pivots -have- to be lubed.

Rowe made a big deal about their use of Teflon and "no lubrication for five years" and I've seen the results of this on dozens of machine I've worked on.

Some of the more extreme examples of no lubrication I've seen were a notch worn in the tonearm cam by the lift finger.

A slight ovaling of the slot where the changer crank rides.

Turntable motors that start slow or frozen altogether.

There is nothing unique to this mechanism -it must be oiled, though carefully I agree.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Rob,

The reason for the slot worn into the metal tone arm cam is a result of thousands of plays of the lever of the Bracket & Lever Assembly following the tone arm cam. If Rowe Ami had put a sleave on the end of the lever that most engineers adopt the cam does not get worn at all.

The self lubrication of the gripper bow nylon gears (truion & cam) require no lubrication and it is detrimental to oil or grease these I have had to replace loads of these because of the distortion this creates.

I have never come across a Transfer Link is that bad but then again the prefered method is not to oil. The Crank & Pin Assembly can be a problem and on the earlier ones you could replace the collar on the longest pin (I still stock these).
This assembly over the years is prone to issues, the rivet that holds the long pin to the casting becomes loose and effect of this causes an eccentric cycle and the result is faulty operation of the gripper bow, record start etc.

If the transfer motor had been fitted with spring or shakeproof washers on the four machine screws that hold it to the motor mounting plate then the motor would not come loose and cause a similar effect to the above.

The problem with saying on public forum that you must lubricate generously is that a home user will take you to your word and oil it until it swims in the stuff.

I will give you that the older Ami jukeboxes, Rock Ola and Seeburg jukeboxes need a lot of lubrication, but then again it needs to be in the correct place. Over 35 years ago I worked for a company in Leeds that did its fair share of Seeburg jukeboxes. The workshop enginners had to change the mechanism carriage cast wheels because they had flats spots on them from over oiling the mechanism bed.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Alan, Rob,

Thanks for all your help - I really appreciate it.

I found the problem (I think.) The jukebox has a 30vdc power supply, and this is used to fire the solenoids in the machine. I was trying to measure the 30v - I removed the harness connector from the power supply and measured the voltage, and it was a bit low - it was about 27v. When I plugged the connector back in, things started to work again. I think the pins and sockets in the connector are tarnished or corroded a bit. Just re-seating the connector seemed to help. (So, before I reseated the connector, if there was resistance in the contacts was causing a slight voltage drop when the solenoid tried to fire.)

It's weird, because the reset solenoid for the other record side seemed to fire ok. (All of the other solenoids in the machine seem to fire ok.) The one left side reset solenoid wasn't getting enough current to fire.

Thanks,

Mike

Yellboxguy,
Glad you "found it"--here's a hint for you--remove, clean and "reform" that pin you found "tarnished", or, better yet replace it with a new one. Also clean it's mating "header pin".
On the oil situation--I have spoken with both the motor makers, and both insist that the motors NEED 20 wt. ND oil--"oil wicks must be kept wet"-- to continue to function. Rowe engineers were apparently "overruled" by their marketing people, in saying that no lubrication was needed for five years. This was somewhat a "funny situation" as "update kits", and repair kits, instructions were obviously never seen by the marketing people, as they all advised that oil was needed, even on the "no oil" "Nyloc bearings" !
Marketing went even further in the CD manuals--they state "no lubrication is necessary", yet their field engineers taught day long schools on how to lubricate the CD player, and mechanism--I attended one--don't really think it helped, as most of the guys got pretty "high"--and IMHO, the CDM 12's were just no good !
Ron Rich

Hi I'm new to these machines myself and I'm having a problem I select the record to play the carousel rotates the the correct record then nothing ???? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Hi Whayward,

Welcome to the forum, if you need any advice, spare parts, repairs or servicing by all means give me a call, I am only 35 miles down the motorway from you in Sheffield.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
alan-hood@datex.co.uk

Hi Alan I have sent an email to the address at the bottom of your comment

Thanks

Wayne