Help appreciated - conti 1

Hello to all,

I am trying to understand what is wrong with a AMI continental 1 i am restoring

first topic - spinning records magazine

when plugged to the AC the machine records magazine will spin, and wont stop

I can easily adjust the relay to have it stop after few rounds, but when making a selection it wont release

the solenoid which suppose to release the locker (at the replay housing) never works (its good although)

so, question 1: what makes this relay solenoid work ? does it gets a command (current) from the wiper wheels relays ? maybe i can trace the problem to there


second topic: solenoid that activates selection hammers wont work

well, the little hammer in the center of the drum was working (in some of the selections), now its not working at all

(this looks like a real headache to replace this solenoid)

but maybe the problem is somewhere else ?

question 2: from where does this solenoid get the command (current) ? (from the wiper wheels relays ?)

n.b. credit mech. is good and allows you to select, the wipers are rolling with selectors, reset buttons solenoid working and nice ticking (after wipers stop rolling)

will appreciate your help on those questions, may be the problems comes from same source

no jukebox technicians lives where i am at (Israel) and its probably the only conti here (and i am the best expert around with no answers)

Eitan

Hi Eitan,
I love that statement-"--best expert around with no answers--" I am no expert on anything either--do yo know what an "expert is ??
I'll tell you--an "ex" is a nothing--like a past spouse---and a "spert" is just a little drip--
Anyway, it sounds as if you have "dirty relay" (contact) problems--as far as I can recall, symptoms 1and 2 are caused by the same relay, if not the same contact on the relay. They also could be the result of a contact on a switch--I do not remember, but the schematic should show you---I suggest that you read the above post "contact points--care/cleaning" if you do not know how to service them.
Ron Rich

In addition to Ron's advice, there are two other areas that can cause problems.

A too-short pulse which is due to dried out timing capacitor in the search unit. this one is an electrolytic of around 100MFD. When this loses capacity the punch becomes erratic and too short.

Next is low DC voltage. Again, this can be a dried up cap in the power supply or failing selenium rectifier. When this happens the magazine and gripper motors will often run slow as well.

Note that the hammer solenoid in the shaft should not need replacing. However, the linkage to the hammers may be bent and/or gummed up. Also, people often added grease to the pinwheel as the machines aged and got dirty. The reason was that the pins became too gunked and stiff to be punched. The real issues were either a too short pulse or the pinwheel needing a wash. Don NOT add oil here. In one Continental I bought the wheel was literally packed with some sort of white grease that had hardened. All 200 of the pins had to be removed and soaked in stripper along with the wheel.

IIRC, the scan assembly on these mechs are coupled to a pulley via a rubber belt,. If that slips the magazine will never windup the scan spring and run either too long or forever. It should make one rev plus a few spaces from where it starts.

Rob-NYC

Hi Eitan,
Rob's post jogged my memory--he is 100 % correct about the caps, and everything else--change caps first--!! --
I have also seen the "pin wheel" full of something--usually a combination of grease and dirt--gotta be clean and dry--nasty job, but must be done. See the service manual as I believe it specifies a procedure for this.
As for the rubber drive for the scan control--yep--seen that too--it's available from one, or more of, the parts suppliers listed above,by original AMi part #,--and IMHO, must be changed -- Ron Rich

Thanks for all the replies
i will try to check the capacitor
the pins are clean and great, its just the selection hammer which doesnt move
(and the record magazine relays that never work)
will update soon
eitan

Dear Ron & Rob,
thank you

here is the capacitor - looks faulty with small vulcano on its tip (see pic)

now, it suppose to be 100UF 50V ?
this is what I found searching the web - http://lists.netlojix.com/pipermail/juk ... 10878.html

I will now buy a modern one but it will probably be much much more smaller

does this makes sense ?

dont want to make mistakes here

second question, help appreciated
How do you fine- tune the record gripper, as the records are falling mid way, looks like the gripper gummy tips are too loose.
can you gently bend the U shape gripper legs ? (one which have rubber on their tips?)
does this makes sense ?

Thanks
Eitan

Hi Eitan,
Yes--that's a 100x50 volt cap--but--that small amount of venting on one that old, does not necessarily indicate that it has, or has not become defective. Yes, the new modern replacement will be at least 1/2 smaller in size --
Do NOT, even try, to "BEND" anything--that's case hardened metal ! Check with the suppliers listed above, and purchase a set of new rubber tips for the gripper arm. Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Eitan,
Yes--that's a 100x50 volt cap--but--that small amount of venting on one that old, does not necessarily indicate that it has, or has not become defective. Yes, the new modern replacement will be at least 1/2 smaller in size --
Do NOT, even try, to "BEND" anything--that's case hardened metal ! Check with the suppliers listed above, and purchase a set of new rubber tips for the gripper arm. Ron Rich

Ronnie, ANY cap I see with venting..... I replace, plain & simple.
Pressure buildup & outgassing due to internal heating means trouble.

Mattie,
Yep-- I agree and would also replace it--however, that small amount, of leakage, on this brand/type of a cap over 40 years old, does not necessarily indicate that the cap is out of spec., at this point in time--it may/may not last quite a bit longer ?
In other words, I think Etian was attempting to determine if this cap was the cause of his problem--unless there is a pile of "leakage", I doubt that just changing this cap, will fix his problem ? Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Mattie,
Yep-- I agree and would also replace it--however, that small amount, of leakage, on this brand/type of a cap over 40 years old, does not necessarily indicate that the cap is out of spec., at this point in time--it may/may not last quite a bit longer ?
In other words, I think Etian was attempting to determine if this cap was the cause of his problem--unless there is a pile of "leakage", I doubt that just changing this cap, will fix his problem ? Ron Rich

Most certainly there are numerous issues with a 1950's juke.
Besides old capacitors, other components also age..... I could write a list an arm long.

Hi
to make it interesting
look at stain just near the place the capacitor stands... looks like leak evidence ? (Sherlock Holmes)
tomorrow i will buy one new and update
I hope its the capacitor

Eitan

Hey Mattie,
Besides lack of, or improper lubrication, I'll bet you don't know what I consider to be the "BIGGEST problem" with old jukes !! Wanna guess ?? Ron Rich

hopefully tommorow i will say capacitors

but i guess its wiring and contacts and micro switches...

eitan

Ron Rich wrote:Hey Mattie,
Besides lack of, or improper lubrication, I'll bet you don't know what I consider to be the "BIGGEST problem" with old jukes !! Wanna guess ?? Ron Rich

Amateurs.

me?
look i got the best experts helping me...

n.b.
try finding coin-operated expert in Israel (not to say jukebox expert)
I can probably make this jukebox fire missiles faster than making it play a record

eitan