Help Appreciated - conti 1 - gripper drops records

Hello,

I need a AMI gripper expert - I did all i can but can not solve this!

My conti 1 is almost ready to play records and almost all problem solved (thanks to all that has helped me a lot)

problem 1: the record gripper when at cancel mode (i.e. sitting back waiting to grip record) looks too close to the records (see pic 1+2)

problem 2: when taking a record it looks too loose and drops many of the records mid way

i have the manual but the only gripper issue there is related to adjusting the microswitch screws (which is did my best according to the instructions)(and it start and stops arm/motor/amp and all looks ok)
(Yes the crank and link are in straight line both in cancel and play mode)

have someone encountered this gripper adjustment issue/records drop ? i am getting crazy here...

is there a way to adjust the gripper to allow correct holding of the records?

if more pictures are needed please let me know what to shoot

Any help appreciated, i am almost there but can not really play my conti1,
i am trying to solve this on my own for about two weeks now

Eitan

Hi Eitan,
Not quite sure what I'm looking at here--I can see that the front of the gripper arm IS too close to the spinning records--a large record might be broken, if this is not cured --- can't understand what I see in the rear, with the two gripper "fingers".
Is there any chance that the gripper gears are not being turned far enough, at both ends, to do the job ?? And if so, you will need to find out why --Have you oiled te gripper assembly --especially in the center sections that are spring driven ? Your problem MAY be old sticky grease, or total lack of proper lubrication- ?? Ron Rich

Eitan, there are at least a couple of things possible here.

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the gripper is a little off-center. The center line of the gripper bow should bisect the center of the turntable.

Next, when the gripper closes and lifts the disk, stop the motor and check the firmness of the gripper action. There should be no looseness (obviously) and if the gripper can be closed more by manually applying pressure to the top and bottom of the jaws, look for either gummy old oil in the gripper pivot and/or wear in the gripper cam linkage. Grippers close via spring pressure.
This mech was designed for the old DC motor that operated the gripper directly via gears. the AC motor was introduced to eliminate the jamming that occurs when the gripper overtravelled, but it meant more strain and wear in the segment gear and linkage they used. What then happens is that people adjust the cam switches which brings the electrical operation back into alignment but the linkage of the gripper still fails to travel far enough to open fully.

--Check the bearing holes in the linkage and gearmotor for wear.--

Rob-NYC

Hi Rob, Ron
thanks for your comments

well i had some 5 hours yesterday on this mechanism

so i either got it wrong or that the tuning of this machine is on the mm, i.e. at the end of process the gripper will almost touch records magazine, is that right?

Findings:

worn cam gear - see pic - is worn in the last teeth, but its not completely eaten (but its on the side of playing position not resting - resting side looks worn but much better), can this be a cause ?

i just ordered replacement for the gripper gear cam , might bring me more gap

Motor housing adj -i found out that the only way to control gripper gap is to move the transmission motor housing back - this has improved dramatically the gap between gripper and record magazine but i can still hear the records very little touching the gripper.

but, doing that the torn arm gear small white plastic part (activates the microswitches) would not get enough movement to hit the metal lever (activating microswitches) as i pulled back the t.motor housing to the max back.

so i had to add a part of my own - see pic red arrow
now i have some kind of minimal gap+microswitches are working

Residue/dirt - the gripper inside mechanism (spring etc) is locked in the housing and i think the only way to clean it inside (old residue etc) is to pull/drill a pin etc... not going to do it) may be there is another mm of dirt residue there?

but in the end of the day - is this a very accurate 0.1-1MM tuning we are talking about or i am completely wrong in my attitude here? doesn't make sense but maybe this is it ?

eitan

any thoughts?

I see nothing wrong with the cam gear--but, I have nothing to compare it with--
As for the extension of the switch actuator--it works !
The gripper, if it has never had anything but ( used by the factory), graphite grease, can usually be "saved" with several heavy doses of 20 wt. ND oil, as it will combine nicely with the grease, and once again, become super slippery. You will need to "work this in" ! Ron Rich

Hi,

I have a Continental 1 that started dropping records.

I went searching for adjustments or broken parts.
The problem ended up being that the arm (point 3 on your first photo) was sticking and not retracting enough.
I added oil and worked it back and forth for a while.
At first there was no change but eventually the arm moved back towards the transfer arm when I added a little more pressure.
It cleared out the old grease that had built up over the years and now the problem is solved.
The Inner shoe (point 3 on your photo) now sits very close to the transfer arm and therefore provides more room between it and the records.
I was surprised how tough and hard old grease can get.

Hope you resolve your problem.

Gordo...

Hi,

I back after doing what ever i could to dig into the gripper mechanism housing hoping some old grease is not allowing full movement of the gripper. (i remind you my gripper is too close to the records when at rest and has too weak grip of the records when travelling ).

the only way to really clean inside is to drill the pin holding the griper inner mechanism, I will do it only if i will be desperate and i am very close to this point. Is there any other way to dismantle the gripper inner parts ?

now one bizzare thing i noticed is that the gripper is moving very fast with the record and actually throwing it, but then i put some pressure/resistance (my finger in the hole on the side of the gripper mech) the gripper moves slower and so do not drop the records.

does it sound reasonable that i might have over oiled the mechnism ?? I used some sewing machine light oil, today in the cleaning process i used WD40.

does this sounds logic? what's next ?

eitan

Hi Eitan,
Nope, Not logical-IMHO !
I would do the following:
1. Toss out the can of WD-40 !
2. Toss out the "sewing machine oil"
3. Purchase some 30 wt. ND oil
4. Remove one record from a slot
5. Select that slot--allow the gripper to go only until it was "facing straight up"
6. Stop the motor at that point--push down on the center post, that grips the record--allow it to spring back. This should spring back VERY fast, and you should hear a loud "knocking sound" as it hits home. If you do not hear that, or it is slow--use that can of 20 wt. oil on the parts that move till you do hear it snap back.
7. CAREFULLY, pull up on the gripper outer housing ( NOT ARM !!) --allow it to snap back-it also must move quickly and make a "bottoming sound". Use the oil on this till it conforms with the above.
If you can not achieve 6-7, you will need to dis-assemble,clean, and properly, re-lube it--
Ron Rich

Thank you Ron !

your help is highly appreciated

please look at the two videos to see that I got it right

first, there is no way to push back the gripper 'center post' as you suggest - it seems to be locked at gripping position - please look what can be done with it in this video (all seems smooth and not stuck in any manner):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COB8gdn8GVg&feature=youtu.be

second, at the same position look when i insert a record - check the gap (record to gripper) - is this normal gap or that the record should be completely tight to the grippers ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjvrUC1fEcM&feature=youtu.be

I await your comments
eitan

Eitan, it looks like you still have some gummy-ness in the rear part of the gripper that is limiting its full extension.

It took some doing, but here are some shots of the gripper in my I-200:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=205 Record raised. There is approx ½" of overtravel available were there no record in the gripper. There is no looseness.

These will show the in-play clearances: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=208

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=203

Record cleared in play: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=204

Cleared in scan: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... rt=2&o=206

So, as I originally contended; the gripper is not traveling fully and somewhere along the line the gearmotor has been shifted too far in or out in an attempt to compensate for this. There is also probably wear in the bearings at the gearbox output and the linkages but there should still be enough movement of the sectional gear to accomplish full open and closing of the gripper.

thank you Rob
is there a simple way to pull out the pin holding the gripper center part. i dont see any easy way to clean the inner parts. any idea?
eitan

Eitan,
As Rob says--that action is showing "gummy-ness"--I would call it a lot of "sluggish-ness"--
Take a hair dryer, ( remove records FIRST !), and heat up that gripper to get all the WD-40 and any other "stuff" out--at least dry--then use 20wt. ND oil and "pour" it in around the edges of that assembly--you will need to "operate it" by hand at LEAST 100 times to work the oil in all the way--Wipe off excess and see what happens--that assembly should snap back when up, as you show it in the video--
Ron Rich

What I suggest here is to disconnect the link between the gear motor and the sectional gear at the gripper. this will allow easier exercising of the gripper mechanism and eliminate the positioning of the motor as a limiting factor in sectional gear travel. From here until the problem is settled this work is done with power off.

This machine has been tinkered with and in these cases I proceed with getting the mechanics to operate properly manually, followed by adjustment of peripheral devices -in this case switches and then a careful power-up.

Rob

Rob, Ron
you did it
SOLVED!!!

WD-40 *$*Xx**D(D*
I am from the WD-40 generation, you will have to forgive me
here it did nothing
now i oiled it, 100 good pushes, when i got to 150 it was solved

now i can buy records...

Guys thank you very much for all the help & advice, in the end of the day the most precious treasure is knowledge

That trick one can not find in the internet, may be now one can, searching for solution and reading this post.
(this was the first gripper drops records apparent)

Eitan