rockola 459 help!!

hi ive got a rockola 459 the problem i have is that when you select a song the last button stays down as it should but nothing els happens the write in arm does not move eny ideas? ive also checked that the contacts are clean . if i flick a pin then the read arm moves an selects the record an plays so that side is working as it should thanks in advance for eny help guys.

Hi.

The write-in arm is operated by a separate motor, this is notorious for seizing. It may be protected by a circuit breaker which may have popped out.

Check those are all reset first along with any fuses etc.

Usually however the motor has seized due to congealed grease.
WARNING DO NOT attempt to dismantle and clean the motor, it will be almost impossible to get back together properly.

They can usually be freed by copious amounts of oiling. Do a search on here for guidance, it has been mentioned a lot in the past.

My machine the later 474 (very similar deck) had the same problem, I traced that (luckily) to a bad contact on the write-in or stop relay (can't remember which now, they are both in the motor's supply circuit).

Pete

Hi Robbie,
I would advise you to meter the 25vac to the motor. If present, the motor has seized, and like written above--do not attempt to dis-assemble it ! I usually remove it, hook it to another power supply and force 20 wt ND oil into it until it operates freely. I have attempted to free them using "other stuff", and have only been partly successful. Anytime I have done so, the motor only stays free for a few weeks--or less. Some of them have "oil wicks" others don't--saturate BOTH ends of the armature shaft, as those are set in bearings, and that is usually the source of the problem. Ron Rich

hi thanks i will try that now. i do know the moto is free as i can turn the arm freely i will see if ive got power at the motor thanks for you help guys:)

checked for power at the motor an nothing dead as so ive gone through all the fuses that ive found and all all good an no brakers have triped. yes pete i do have a service manual an i can see the power supply goes through a relay called k7 but theres no relay in k7 only k6 strange so i tryd putting the relay from k6 into k7 but still nothin ive found power at the red write in relay but its not getting down to the motor i can feel a headache coming on with this haha eny other thoughts guys ??

Robbie,
Did you just acquire this phono, or did it just quit working ?
Ron Rich

it woz bought in this condition about 15 years ago only now ive decided its time to get it going from what im told it just stoped working one day. like i say if i flick a pin all works fine that side its just the write in side

Well, who knows which "genius" did what to the phono way back then--
Going from my great, but not too long memory, I strongly suspect that both K-6, and K-7 are required for this phono to operate ? You will need to get out the schematics, ad research it-- Ron Rich

yea this is what im thinking has someone been messing around with it before. guner havto dig deeper thanks for you help

Hi Robbie.

I suspect that in your case it may just be correct that K7 is missing.

K7 is referred to as the "dual carriage relay" and is used in 160 play machines such as the 460 and my 474.

Yours being a 459 is a 100 selection machine, am I right?

on the 160 play machines K7 is used when a selection ending in 4 or greater is used.

Both types of machine may use the same selection control box, but just not fit K7, or maybe yours has the wrong selection box.

For now keep your test selections to 101 or 201 for example.

Please put K6 back and check the following first, then come back to me.

Power (25VAC) is switched to the motor via K3 and also K4 (STOP) normally closed contacts on the PSU, so check K3 pulls in ok after the 3rd button is pressed.
if so remove both K3 and K4 and check closely all the relay contacts of both relays. The covers remove quite easily.

If you let me know this outcome, then I will try to guide you further.

Pete

Hi

On further studying of the schematic (for my machine at least) K3 the red write-in relay has it coil connected through a "reciever jumper" plug.

Do you know if this is fitted ? Was the machine ever attached to a wall box ?

We need to establish if K3 is pulling in when selecting 101


Pete

As another test.

Assuming K3 relay doesn't pull in, remove it's cover, and put the machine in the write-in mode (make selection confirm last button latched)
then manually operate the K3 relay, very gently push it's armature down just briefly with a short insulated stick such as a biro case, and see if the write-in motor operates.

DO NOT !! Hold the contacts down for any length of time, just a breif test only.

It goes without saying that any relay removal MUST be done with the machine power off.
Turn the machine off, remove the relay, remove it's cover (gently) then replace relay.

CAUTION !!!
There is one relay, the "Play Control Relay" which switches mains voltages (turntable motor).

Please be careful


Pete

Am I to assume that you got it working then ?

Pete

hi sorry for the late reply i aint looked at the juke for a while so the other day i got a probe tester an i powerd the write in motor then moved to the next point an the next an so on untill i narrowed it down to one little risistor would you belive it i just touched it an it fell apart so ive bypassed it an its all working apart from it doesent show what selection is playing. do you think i should replace the risistor or will it be ok just leaving it bypassed like it must be there for a reson right?

"Bypassing" anything, IMHO, is not a good idea--and could cause a fire---
Ron Rich