Proper Tone arm wiring in AMI K-200E monophonic

Hello to all. Haven't been posting for a long time, since I was having a huge break on working on my box! Well It's about time i start doing some serious service again.
So here is my problem...
When I make a selection while a song is playing, i here a "clicking" noise from the speaker. It is somehow sounding like the selection dialing noise coming through my speaker.
It doesn't happen with all the selections and it doesn't happen all the time, but I was wondering how to stop that.
Does it need maybe a new tone arm wiring? The shielded type? Can that be the solution?
If yes, then how is it supposed to be done properly?
I mean the one mono cable goes to the amp rca input, but does the "shield" wire need to be connected somewhere too? does it have to be mounted on the tone arm? I am a bit confused here how to do it properly.
Is this the fault of my problem?
Or maybe it is a grounding problem?

thanks,
Takis

Takis, does the noise occur if the machine is set up to play mode with no record and does the noise occur with the pickup plug removed from the amp?

If the shield on the cable to the tonearm is frayed it can become intermittent and this will cause noises like that as it flexes.

The shield must not touch any metal on the mech. the only place it should connect to physically is at the amp plug.

If the ticking still occurs with the pickup unplugged it indicates arching in the amp and this must be looked into. It can be a failing capacitor.

Rob-NYC

Takis, Rob,
That model as well as all similar models used a shielded pick-up wire, with an un-insulated shield wrapped on the outside. I do not recall, but I think it was connected at both ends--AND, it tended to touch many places in it's long trip from amp to tone arm.
The "clicking" while sending info to the pulse converter is typical of those phono's. There were several "noise suppression" caps in the pulse converter, that should be changed AND -- ALL "grounds" must be cleaned and tightened, to eliminate the "clicking"-- Ron Rich

Ron, you are right about the cable -they did use an open braid, I replaced it on my "I" with plastic cable and twisted unshielded from cart to an RCA plug at the cable. It is not considered good practice to have an audio signal touching ground at various points outside the first stage in an amp.

From Takis' description I got the impression that it was an ongoing noise similar to the pulses when selecting but occurring randomly at all times.. As usual, you are probably correct.

Rob

Rob-NYC wrote:Ron, you are right about the cable -they did use an open braid, I replaced it on my "I" with plastic cable and twisted unshielded from cart to an RCA plug at the cable. It is not considered good practice to have an audio signal touching ground at various points outside the first stage in an amp.

From Takis' description I got the impression that it was an ongoing noise similar to the pulses when selecting but occurring randomly at all times.. As usual, you are probably correct.

Rob

I agree to the "open braid" ground situation on any signal line.
Minute differences in grounding along the length of the cable can cause noise, and that bare braid is also open to corrosion being exposed to air.
Best to maintain a single ground connection at the amp end of things.

Hi Guys--
Somewhere along the line, I "waz learnet" ( long story--thank-you Mrs. Louis !) that there is a difference if the shield is connected at one, or, both ends. If only connected at the RCA plug/amp end, it is a "shield wire", not a "ground wire". Of course, to be a "shield" in this case, would require that both the "hot", and "cold" side had independent ( twisted) wires inside the plastic shielded wire. I have installed that system on several AMi's of that vintage, to successfully eliminate the pulsing noise. Ron Rich

Ok I am a bit confused here now.
Thank you for the replies, but maybe my English are just not good enough to understand some terms you are using.
What I meant is that sometimes (and during a song is been played), if I make a new selection, the dialing sound from the pulse generator is heard through the speaker, while it is transfered to the pulse converter.
Now, for me to get this right...
The mono shielded cable has a copper wire insulated with a plastic cover, and shielded by a mesh of tin plated copper wire.
On top of them is a plastic cover covering both copper wires (wire and shield).
I know that the insulated covered wire connects the cartridge with the RCA plug that goes to the amp.
But the shield (mesh of tin plated copper wire) should be naked at the ends touching or connected somewhere?

Please keep it as simple as possible, my English is a grade 4 primary school kid's

thanks a lot for the help

Takis

Ps: this is the type of the cable used...
http://www.jukebox-world.de/en/Cartridg ... -mono.html

Hi Takis,
Your English is fine, MUCH better then my Greek !!! --I am sure I understand what you are saying !
First--did you change the condensers ( aka "caps") in the pulse converter, and any in the amp suppression circuits / "clean up" grounds ??
In My Opinion, that wire should be changed to the type with two independent twisted wires inside the shield. One wire should go to the "hot" side of the cartridge to the hot side screw, or center pin on the RCA plug, if used. The other wire should go to the "ground side" of the cartridge and the ground screw, or, outside "ring"on the RCA plug if used. The shield MUST be connected to ground at the amplifier. At the cartridge end, it is a question of where to connect, or not to connect it at all. I would leave it un-connected and see if the selection pulses are muted like that--if not, try connecting it to the tone arm itself, if still not good, try connecting to the ground lug on the cartridge.

Thank you again Ron for taking time to answer. I have not changed the capacitors in the pulse converter and that might be it! I never thought that could be the fault.
As for the amp I have had re-done it all with new caps and everything last year, so it should be fine.
The wire was there so that's why I guessed it is the right one.
I will try to change it with a double type twisted wire and connect it the way you say to see what happens,
So if I get it right you are talking about a cable that contains 2 twisted insulated wire (probably red - white) and 1 braided shield wire.
My question is if the braided shield shoud be naked or not? Is it covered by the plastic of the cable or is it exposed and touching everywhere?
Does it look like the attachment? Cause I can't seem to find a cable with two insulated twisted wires and one insulated braided shield!

Cheers,
Takis

Hi Takis,
It appears to be the the type of wire I suggested, however, from the photo, I can't tell the thickness--and yes, I use a plastic coated wire--the original AMi wire was not coated, but it appeared to me, that they attempted to insulate it along it's path from all other metal. Ron Rich

Ok Ron,
I will let you all know how it went.
Probably will find some time on the weekend to take care of that.

Thank you all

Takis

Well here is some feedback...

I Did a new wiring. but this time I thought to use a RFI noise filter like this:
Like shown in the version 2.

I don't know why I came to this conclusion. maybe because the cartridge is magnetic I believed this may be a solution. And I did not re-cap the converter (at least yet)...

I was thinking to use a car radio RCA filter, but an electronic expert told be that would only work while connecting the pre-amplifier to the main amp, and would not work on the tone arm wiring.

The weird thing is that what I didi seems to be working! I am making several selections all afternoon and still have not heard the annoying "clicking" sound from the speaker. Maybe it is α coincidence? I'll find out in the following days.

Just wanted to let you know, if by any means this is a "quick-fix"!

Hey, I'm a lazy guy--I live by the rule--if it ain't broke (now), Don't fix it !!
Just curious--did you use the new wire without the filter--did it still make noise??
Ron Rich

You know Ron, I am also wondering If I did the new re-wiring for nothing I never checked the filter before, so I am also left with that un-answered question!
I followed your direction with the wiring directions but still the dialing/clicking was heard sometimes.
So after some desperate research, I saw this photo somewhere online. It is some sort of noise reduce filter that some AMI model was using in the past. It also looks like it was connected on the RCA input between the tonearm cable and the pre-amp. That's when it hit me to use an EMI noise filter...
Well second day today and still free of "unwanted" noises! I just can't believe it!
Was this a real simple fix? They are very cheap by the way and some people suggest using more than one, although for me it seems enough.
looks true till now Maybe someone else should use it if they have the same problem and give a feedback.
Mine is a mono cartridge and amp.
Oh, and I did mention that i made 1 loop around the ferrite filter, as i read somewhere it's filtering better that way.