hi, i recently was given my grandmothers HMV 194. I was wondering what it would be worth for insurance purposes. it is in perfect working order but has a few scratches on the top. also could anyone tell me about this model? when was it made? what are the specks etc...
any info would be great
thanks!
HMV 194
Q&A about Talking Machines from the pre-electronic era (approx. 1885-1928).
This is the second biggest HMV re-entrant model made, being the same size as the 193 which was an oak cabinet, and the 194 is mahogany. These were first made in 1927, but didn't sell in huge numbers because most people were starting to buy electric gramophones, and by 1931 HMV was getting rid of existing stock very cheaply. There were two different motors used in the 193/4 & 202/3, firstly the no.34 (4 spring) & then the No.52 (oil bath). The earliest cabinets had a gold transfer on the motorboard with the model number, but was later replaced by a plastic disc found under the used needle tin.
The scratches may not be a "major" problem, and could possibly be removed professionally or by someone experienced in finish repair, but DONT strip & refinish the cabinet because of it, or you will probably halve the value. You are probably best off to leave the scratches as they are, and not worry about them really. If it's in pretty good original condition, and still has the original grille cloth, soundbox etc, you'd have to insure it for at least $5000 or whatever the equivelant is where you live (UK?).
The 193 was originally cheaper than the 194, and probably sold in less numbers than the 193, so would be a rarer machine than the 193.
A good clean original 193 will usually sell for between $5000 & $7000 here in Australia, so a 194 should bring about the same if not slightly more.
A guy named Steve who posts here knows more about these than I do, so might be able to give you better info & value etc than me. We've both got the bigger 202, and Steve either has or had a 194. The 163 was the smallest re-entrant, and are really quite common, and don't sound near as good as the two bigger sizes. You've actually scored a very desirable machine, and these would probably rate amoungst the "top 10" best sounding internal horn machines ever made anywhere in the world!
Here's an ad in a Sydney newspaper for xmas 1928 which includes the 194 on the far right. The original prices in the UK were about half of what they were here. The 4 spring model is priced at 92 pounds, and with electric motor 127 pounds. I tried to post a bigger picture so you could read it, but it's not working for some reason. You might have better luck copying it and viewing it that way, or printing it out?
The scratches may not be a "major" problem, and could possibly be removed professionally or by someone experienced in finish repair, but DONT strip & refinish the cabinet because of it, or you will probably halve the value. You are probably best off to leave the scratches as they are, and not worry about them really. If it's in pretty good original condition, and still has the original grille cloth, soundbox etc, you'd have to insure it for at least $5000 or whatever the equivelant is where you live (UK?).
The 193 was originally cheaper than the 194, and probably sold in less numbers than the 193, so would be a rarer machine than the 193.
A good clean original 193 will usually sell for between $5000 & $7000 here in Australia, so a 194 should bring about the same if not slightly more.
A guy named Steve who posts here knows more about these than I do, so might be able to give you better info & value etc than me. We've both got the bigger 202, and Steve either has or had a 194. The 163 was the smallest re-entrant, and are really quite common, and don't sound near as good as the two bigger sizes. You've actually scored a very desirable machine, and these would probably rate amoungst the "top 10" best sounding internal horn machines ever made anywhere in the world!
Here's an ad in a Sydney newspaper for xmas 1928 which includes the 194 on the far right. The original prices in the UK were about half of what they were here. The 4 spring model is priced at 92 pounds, and with electric motor 127 pounds. I tried to post a bigger picture so you could read it, but it's not working for some reason. You might have better luck copying it and viewing it that way, or printing it out?
In all honesty, Shane has set it all out quite perfectly and I don't think I can add anything to what he's already said so I won't just repeat it here for the sake of it! 
BUT, the original message questioned insurance values. I would simply ask what is the purpose of the insurance? If you are seriously concerned about the ability to replace this item should something unforeseen happen to it, then it depends on where you are in the world but taking a "worldy perspective" I would suggest an insurance price guide of £2500-3000 GBP in the current market. The problem wouldn't be so much trying to get another 194 for a fixed sum as much as it would be finding another one in the first place. This sum should amply cover the cost of acquiring another example in the current time should that be the need and if one became available. Quite honestly I would not pay more at the moment as I think the prices (of all the more expensive items) are seriously precarious due to the uncertain times we all live in.
Most people who inherit machines are normally not preoccupied with insurance as it could be argued that it is nonsensical to pay out a fortune annually to insure something which has little intrinsic value to the people who actually own it or owned it prior to you?
HTH
Steve
BUT, the original message questioned insurance values. I would simply ask what is the purpose of the insurance? If you are seriously concerned about the ability to replace this item should something unforeseen happen to it, then it depends on where you are in the world but taking a "worldy perspective" I would suggest an insurance price guide of £2500-3000 GBP in the current market. The problem wouldn't be so much trying to get another 194 for a fixed sum as much as it would be finding another one in the first place. This sum should amply cover the cost of acquiring another example in the current time should that be the need and if one became available. Quite honestly I would not pay more at the moment as I think the prices (of all the more expensive items) are seriously precarious due to the uncertain times we all live in.
Most people who inherit machines are normally not preoccupied with insurance as it could be argued that it is nonsensical to pay out a fortune annually to insure something which has little intrinsic value to the people who actually own it or owned it prior to you?
HTH
Steve
I used to be looking for things but now I've found them I don't look at them!
-
shae
Topic author - Junior Member
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:17 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
thanks for all the info! i am glad i had it shipped over from New Zealand (to Melbourne) as it was being used as a TV stand by my mum! It is a great sounding machine for its age, it's a shame there is a small tare in the grille cloth, but its just fantastic to crank it up and listen to something from that error. it does have the gold transfer with the model number so it must be the earlier version.
once again thanks for your help!
once again thanks for your help!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
It is currently Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:24 pm
