Seeburg V200 TES

Hi, I have the dreaded 'scans twice and stops without selecting' on all number 1's. All other number/letter combos seem ok. I have the manual that talks about cleaning the contacts in the switch (number 1 button switch I take it). I can't find any further info on that, is is easy to do? Do I have to pull out the TES to get at it, can anyone shed some light on it for me please? I'm thinking it's simple, I don't want to wield the multimeter yet!
Cheers guys

Hi Oz,
This brings up a very un-pleasant memory, which I will re-count in hopes it never happens again--
I once was charged with locating a co-workers, cut off finger, inside either a "V" or "K" TES casting.
I managed to do so, pack it in ice, and the Drs. were able to re-attach it--but the poor gent passed away about 6 months later from non related, cancer--Use extreme caution when working inside these units !!
I would not suspect the TES in this case. I would first suspect the Cinch-Jones connectors. At least, re-seat them.
After which, if still not working, using a good analog meter, the slide switches are simple to check--sorry, I do not recall if they are accessible in those phonos without removing the TES first. Use of a "spray cleaner" here, should be limited to only a "Plastic safe", safety solvent, non-residue type cleaner--NO "lubrication", what so ever !
Ron Rich

Hi Ron, thanks for the reply - a wakeup call no less, I will check my health insurance first! Good point, I will start with the simple things first and check those connectors. If I need to check the slide switch, is it just a case of a continuity check with the machine off or do I need to measure a voltage there? I can't do any of it until the weekend so I will be delayed in my reply. Thanks again,
Ian

Ian,
No voltage check--GOOD analog meter required, however. Ron Rich

Ron, how the "heck" does a person lose a finger working on these machines....? I've never gotten more than a small cut from some sharp metal in them.

A scarey situation are the Rowe JEL/JAL door supports. THOSE are a genuine guillotine.

Rob

Rob,
Thankfully, I was not in the room when it happened--but he told me later he "bumped" the (open) keyboard casting with his belly, while his hand was partly in-out of it and it slammed shut on his finger--One of the other guys in the shop took him to the hospital--I just got a phone call to look for his finger, and bring it to them--
Ron

Hi Ron, well I didn't lose a finger but I've lost a running jukebox at the minute - not sure what happened really. The number 1 key swipe switch seems to work ok, no continuity with the switch out and continuity with the switch in on both sets of wires. I only had a digital meter to check with. So I reseated the plugs, both look very clean and dry. I shouldve tried the machine before I began to see if all was well but it worked fine when last used a week ago. So I powered it up after the reseat and no credit is showing, so I put a coin in, still no credit. I turned it off and re-reseated the plugs, on power up the credit is back - weird. So I make a selection, upon pressing the second key buzzing starts in the back of the machine somewhere, I didn't have a helper so I'll have to wait to find out about that. I tried several reseats but come up with the same result, buzzing from the back upon full selection (and it's definitely not the latch solenoid) and no trip is made to set the mech off. Credit unit maybe???
Thanks for any help again, Ian

Ian,
Interesting--don't recall ever seeing a V do that---which TSR is installed-and, which pricing unit ?
Ron Rich

Ian, first check that the plugs are -properly- seated. That means making sure the round plug's locating key is intact so that they will only fit in properly.

If the buzzing is coming from the credit unit, there is a strong likelihood that the low-dc rect has failed under load. Connect your meter to the output of the low-dc rectifier -one lead to the minus, the other to chassis. With power on you should see about 26vdc. Make a selection, if it sags below 22 volts while buzzing replace the rect. I routinely replace selenium rects on machines i use commercially. Remember to add a fuse in each lead from the transformer to that rect. I use 1/2 amp-slo.

Do you have the original TSR-1 with 2D21's tubes? Those were notoriously temperamental as they age. Variations in line/heater voltage really affect them. So much so that Seeburg drastically changed the circuit to use a direct switching for write-in/readout and a more robust tube for trip.

You can do a simple continuity test from the origination point of the write-in pulse to keyboard and Tormat to ground. But I need to know what TSR you have.

Rob-NYC

Rob & Ron - thankyou both for the help, I have an easy answer for the buzzing I think. I enquired a little deeper as to how the V200 had been running at the end of the party and found out that they couldn't get credits any more and the coins weren't coming out. I pulled the slug rejector and the coin chute was blocked solid to the switches, so I gave it a good clean up and put it back and hey presto - credit and selection is working well again. Interestingly, I managed to play some "key number 1" records - I found that if you put a lot of credits on, the '1's' can be played - but not with just one coin (which is usually good for 3 selections). I don't get it, I have the pricing all set to singles, no ep's.
In a further twist, after I established you can play a '1' with more credit, the V200 then proceeded to play almost all the '1's'. I consulted the manual and replaced the 2D21's and the OA2 as recommended - no change, it plays all the 'A' sides in the '1's' if you select just one 'A' side. Also, if you make a '1' selection whilst another '1' is playing, the mech rejects the playing record for the new selection. There's quite a bit of weirdness happening! The only other curve ball I've seen it do over the last 6 months is that sometimes after power-up, when you make your first selection it begins to scan and immediately plays the record at 'R0', irrespective of your selection- this is becoming more regular like it has some electric version of Alzheimers!
Lastly, if it matters, the start-stop switch for the latch bar solenoid on the number bank doesnt function, so you always have to do the letter first before the number. The switch checks out ok on the multimeter. Apart from the '1's' and the R0 issue, it seems to work ok. If either of you two are holidaying in Australia, I've got a job for you! Once again, thanks gents, I am grateful.
Cheers, Ian

Sorry guys, its a TSR1 and DCU1L6. I don't know whether they are modified at all. The TSR doesn't have all the tubes in it but I believe it doesn't have to as I don't have a remote wallbox? The TES has one of the counters missing and 3or 4 what looks like ballast resistors in its place, so there are some changes to that. Not being a sparky leaves me ignorant of their purpose.
Thanks, Ian

Ian,
OK--sounds as if the TSR and DCU are original--The TES normally has a few large resistors in it, as they are used for the "select lamps", and as a ballast for the latch bar solenoid. The missing meter won't hurt anything--
I would guess that your "missing 1's", and your "R-0" problems are related to a "dirty TES". You will need to remove the TES from the cabinet, remove the latch solenoid, and meter from the TES, and wash it, using ammonia and hot water. Allow it to dry totally, and check out why the start switch is not functioning at the same time ( they are wired in parallel with the number start switch). Check the continuity of the number one slide switch using an analog meter--it must have zero resistance--and no "bounce" when pushed.
BTW--Pay for me and my wife to come down there, and we just might--love to see your country !
Ron Rich

Hi Ron, once I win lotto (I plan to!) I will send you the plane tickets! It will be about a week before I can get to the jukebox, stay tuned please! What sort of ratio of ammonia to water is ideal? I suppose I can't really get a brush in to the contacts area, so will a good long soak remove the gunk? Any form of lubrication or protection required afterwards?
Thanks again, Ian

Ian,
I use the ammonia "straight" from the bottle--stick it into a hand-pump, and stand outside and "spray away" working the slide switches--works even better when it's hot outside--let it soak for about 15 or so minutes, but not dry--then rinse with hot water. I then use 20 wt ND oil on all the "pivot points" and a very slight coating of graphite grease on "sliding areas"--NO lube of any kind on the switches themselves, or phenolic material they are mounted on (as it WILL "short-out").
Oh, one other thing--win that lotto soon, as I am getting old---
Ron Rich

Hi Ron, an update on the TES. I gave it a good spray out with warm ammonia and a lot of gunk came out. That stuff works really well! Anyway, rinsed it, dried it and it has stopped the crazy selections in the 'A' section. It did however make its own R-0 selection on one occasion out of ten. The scenario seems to be that it has no credit, so you add credit and make a selection, it immediately plays R-0 which is where the phono rests after scanning. Anyway, it only did it once, so I'm not too worried about it. Thankyou for the good advice!
I still can't nut out the number start/stop switch for the latch bar solenoid. The switch seems to check out ok on a basic continuity check but I haven't put a voltmeter on it yet. I hope I am assuming correctly that the switch should pull in the latch bar solenoid - surely you can pick a number first if you want, instead of a letter? The letter one works fine obviously.
Unfortunately I can't get back to the juke for a couple of weeks, so updates will be slow. Thanks again!