Hi,
I hope someone here could help my find information about the Columbia Viva-Tonal Grafonola 109a.
we've found one in the attic in pretty bad shape (but with all the parts), and we're wondering if refurbishing it is worth the effort.
please send us any information or photos you have.
Thanks,
Yuval
Columbia Viva-Tonal Grafonola 109a
Q&A about Talking Machines from the pre-electronic era (approx. 1885-1928).
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CalumetPhono1
Topic author
Not familiar with that particular model, Columbia made so many different ones. Is this a upright or small tabletop or suitcase model? Do you have any pictures?
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Neophone
- Senior Member
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- Location: South Boston, Mass., U.S.A.
Yuval,
Is it just the case that's beat-up? Does it work? Many top brand portables are nice sounding machines. I assume your looks like this: Columbia 106a It looks like a nice machine. It would probably sound fairly decent fixed up. Good luck with it.
Regards,
J.
Is it just the case that's beat-up? Does it work? Many top brand portables are nice sounding machines. I assume your looks like this: Columbia 106a It looks like a nice machine. It would probably sound fairly decent fixed up. Good luck with it.
Regards,
J.
Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will brighten and alter your whole life...
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Rachel G
Topic author
I have exactly the same Viva-tonal Columbia Grafonola NO.109 A and in pretty poor condition also, except that it does play...well, sort of! i am hoping ot get advice on restoring the '78s and whether the Grafonola itself can be helped a bit. I was hopoing to have a '78s tea party, but at the moment the sound is not very attractive!
All the best with sorting your machine out.
Rachel G.
All the best with sorting your machine out.
Rachel G.
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Joe_DS
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Rachel G wrote:I have exactly the same Viva-tonal Columbia Grafonola NO.109 A and in pretty poor condition also, except that it does play...well, sort of! i am hoping ot get advice on restoring the '78s and whether the Grafonola itself can be helped a bit. I was hopoing to have a '78s tea party, but at the moment the sound is not very attractive!
All the best with sorting your machine out.
Rachel G.
Hi Rachel:
The Columbia Viva Tonal models had pretty good sound-- strong mid-range, a good, clear, treble, and even a slight hint of bass. In optimal condition, they sound very much like a small electric phonograph. I've listened to a restored 109a and was amazed at the sound quality.
Normally, the main reason for poor sonic performance is that the sound box (or reproducer -- the part you insert the needle into) is in need of repair. These were equipped with an aluminum diaphragm, held in place by rubber gaskets. If the rubber has hardened, or if the diaphragm, itself, is damaged, it will not work properly. Along this line, the screw pivots holding the needle bar in place normally have to be cleaned and adjusted for maximum compliance. (In order to track a record, the needle must be able to move without restriction, but the joint must not be too loose, or the sound box will rattle.)
Along this line, if the sound box is in good condition, another reason for poor results is using a worn needle. Conventional steel needles should only be used once, to play one side of a record, and then discarded. (These are still being produced today and are available from a number of suppliers.) A jewel tipped needle should never be used on this type of phonograph.
As for restoring the records, if they are play worn, there is nothing you can do but hunt down better copies. At most, you can clean the surface of the records using a damp cloth, and then allowing them to air dry over night.
There are a number of shops and repairmen who specialize in acoustic (wind-up) phonographs. You can find many by doing an internet search for "gramophone repair".
HTH
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heer_bommel
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:33 pm
Hi, I also have a Columbia 109A, which I bought recently. I was wondering if anyone could tell me in what year(s) this machine was manufactured. I assume it is from the 2nd half of the 1920`s, but perhaps someone can narrow it down.
I also have the problem with vibration while playing electrically recorded records. At first I thought it was the soundbox, so the guy I bought it from sent me another, identical, soundbox. This seemed to have done the trick, but after a while the vibration came back. I have done some experimenting with it, and I believe the vibrating sound is caused by something resonating in the interior of the machine, possibly the lid. When I hold the lid steady, using both hands, while playing a record, the resonance dissapears. But it´s not really the most comfortable listening position!
I also have the problem with vibration while playing electrically recorded records. At first I thought it was the soundbox, so the guy I bought it from sent me another, identical, soundbox. This seemed to have done the trick, but after a while the vibration came back. I have done some experimenting with it, and I believe the vibrating sound is caused by something resonating in the interior of the machine, possibly the lid. When I hold the lid steady, using both hands, while playing a record, the resonance dissapears. But it´s not really the most comfortable listening position!
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Joe_DS
- Forum Moderator
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- Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:23 pm
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I also have the problem with vibration while playing electrically recorded records. At first I thought it was the soundbox, so the guy I bought it from sent me another, identical, soundbox. This seemed to have done the trick, but after a while the vibration came back. I have done some experimenting with it, and I believe the vibrating sound is caused by something resonating in the interior of the machine, possibly the lid. When I hold the lid steady, using both hands, while playing a record, the resonance dissapears. But it´s not really the most comfortable listening position!
If it tends to buzz or rattle in sympathy with louder notes, it may also be the horn, itself. I'm not sure what all is involved, but you should probably pull the motor board, and check to make sure that horn's attachment points are secure.
Along this line, I worked on one Columbia portable about ten years ago, and noticed that felt had been packed between the horn and cabinet. (The color of the felt matched the turntable, and it looked like it had always been there.) I removed the felt to clean inside the cabinet, but forgot to reposition it when I put it all back together. When I test played a record, I immediately heard a metallic buzzing noise. I put the felt back in place, and no more buzzing.
I'm not sure of the exact production dates; perhaps one of our UK gramophone experts can chime in...
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Shane not logged in
Topic author
All I can add is that the Viva-tonal was introduced in 1926, and the Plano-reflex tonearm came out in 1928.
The Plano-reflex tonearm has large flat surfaces on the bends of the tonearm, but not being familiar with the 109 myself, I'm not sure what arm it had.
By 1931, when HMV & Columbia merged to become EMI, portables became standardised, and you'd find the exact same machine, but with different brand names.
I'm pretty sure plano-reflex's were all marked as such, so my uneducated guess would be the 109A was made between 1926 & 28.
The Plano-reflex tonearm has large flat surfaces on the bends of the tonearm, but not being familiar with the 109 myself, I'm not sure what arm it had.
By 1931, when HMV & Columbia merged to become EMI, portables became standardised, and you'd find the exact same machine, but with different brand names.
I'm pretty sure plano-reflex's were all marked as such, so my uneducated guess would be the 109A was made between 1926 & 28.
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heer_bommel
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:33 pm
Shane not logged in wrote:All I can add is that the Viva-tonal was introduced in 1926, and the Plano-reflex tonearm came out in 1928.
The Plano-reflex tonearm has large flat surfaces on the bends of the tonearm, but not being familiar with the 109 myself, I'm not sure what arm it had.
By 1931, when HMV & Columbia merged to become EMI, portables became standardised, and you'd find the exact same machine, but with different brand names.
I'm pretty sure plano-reflex's were all marked as such, so my uneducated guess would be the 109A was made between 1926 & 28.
Your description of the Plano-reflex tonearm sounds kinda like my tonearm. Here´s a picture of my gramophone.
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heer_bommel
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:33 pm
Joe_DS wrote:I also have the problem with vibration while playing electrically recorded records. At first I thought it was the soundbox, so the guy I bought it from sent me another, identical, soundbox. This seemed to have done the trick, but after a while the vibration came back. I have done some experimenting with it, and I believe the vibrating sound is caused by something resonating in the interior of the machine, possibly the lid. When I hold the lid steady, using both hands, while playing a record, the resonance dissapears. But it´s not really the most comfortable listening position!
If it tends to buzz or rattle in sympathy with louder notes, it may also be the horn, itself. I'm not sure what all is involved, but you should probably pull the motor board, and check to make sure that horn's attachment points are secure.
Along this line, I worked on one Columbia portable about ten years ago, and noticed that felt had been packed between the horn and cabinet. (The color of the felt matched the turntable, and it looked like it had always been there.) I removed the felt to clean inside the cabinet, but forgot to reposition it when I put it all back together. When I test played a record, I immediately heard a metallic buzzing noise. I put the felt back in place, and no more buzzing.
I'm not sure of the exact production dates; perhaps one of our UK gramophone experts can chime in...
In order to remove the motorboard, I will first have to remove the crank. And unlike Victrola´s, Columbia´s have a fixed crank that cannot be unplugged that easily. Maybe I will have to take it to a specialist.
Another problem, which came up yesterday, is that I can´t use the little screw anymore to secure the steel needle into position. I just can keep turning that screw forever, without feeling any resistance. Perhaps the screw thread (is that the correct term?) is damaged, that is, either the thread of the screw itself, or the thread of the hole were you screw the screw in.
Do you have any ideas on how this can be fixed, without having to buy an entire new reproducer? Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
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Joe_DS
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In order to remove the motorboard, I will first have to remove the crank. And unlike Victrola´s, Columbia´s have a fixed crank that cannot be unplugged that easily. Maybe I will have to take it to a specialist.
Another problem, which came up yesterday, is that I can´t use the little screw anymore to secure the steel needle into position. I just can keep turning that screw forever, without feeling any resistance. Perhaps the screw thread (is that the correct term?) is damaged, that is, either the thread of the screw itself, or the thread of the hole were you screw the screw in.
Do you have any ideas on how this can be fixed, without having to buy an entire new reproducer? Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
It sounds like either the needle-bar's "thumbscrew" is stripped, or the thumbscrew's hole is stripped.
If you're dealing with a stripped thumbscrew, then you simply have to find a replacement--available at most well stocked gramophone repair shops for a nominal fee.
If the hole, itself, is stripped then you will have to have it re-tapped (drilled) and have a slightly larger thumbscrew fitted in place of the original.
If a larger thumbscrew cannot be found, then there are two possible options--a replacement needle bar will have to be installed, or the hole will have to be filled with solder and re-tapped. Probably the most expedient thing to do is send the sound box to a qualified repairman and let him deal with it.
BTW, this may actually be the cause of the buzzing/rattling problem, since the needle has to be held in place tightly in order for the sound box, etc., to function properly. If the needle is even slightly loose--which it might have been since the thumbscrew's threads were failing--it can cause a great deal of distortion.
As for removing the crank, you should be able to do this by turning the crank backwards (counterclockwise). If it won't budge, try spraying a little Liquid Wrench or even WD-40 in between the crank and the side of the crank's hole, and try again. (Apply about the same pressure you would use to firmly tighten a screw--but no more.) If it still won't unscrew, then it's best to leave it in place, and turn the job over to a repairman. Probably, the motor could stand a good cleaning and re-greasing, anyway.
HTH.
Joe_DS
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heer_bommel
- Junior Member
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Well, I succeeded in removing the crank. It was pretty easy. I removed the motorboard and inspected the motor. It looked pretty good, hardly any rust, and well-oiled. There were some flakes of dust, so I removed them with a piece of kitchen paper. I don´t think the motor needs any cleaning or greasing, it runs very quietly. It looks as if the seller did a good maintenance job on his machines.
Inside the suitcase I found some numbers that may be helpful in dating my talking machine. Engraved in the motor was: Columbia No. 25. Ref. no 429. Also mentioned was a "registered no. 21176".
I mailed the seller back about the thumbscrew (hole) problem, and await his response.
Inside the suitcase I found some numbers that may be helpful in dating my talking machine. Engraved in the motor was: Columbia No. 25. Ref. no 429. Also mentioned was a "registered no. 21176".
I mailed the seller back about the thumbscrew (hole) problem, and await his response.
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Shane still not logged in
Topic author
It is indeed a plano-reflex arm. These were supplied with a no.9 soundbox for the first year or so, then sometime in 1929, they switched to the no.15 soundbox.(no.16 in the USA)
As far as I'm aware, no records exist for dating these using the reference numbers unfortunately.
As far as I'm aware, no records exist for dating these using the reference numbers unfortunately.
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heer_bommel
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:33 pm
Shane still not logged in wrote:It is indeed a plano-reflex arm. These were supplied with a no.9 soundbox for the first year or so, then sometime in 1929, they switched to the no.15 soundbox.(no.16 in the USA)
As far as I'm aware, no records exist for dating these using the reference numbers unfortunately.
Thanks for the info. I have found 2 pictures of my soundbox on the Internet. Is this the nr 9, 15, or 16? That way I could further narrow down the year of production. Thanks in advance!
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yuvaln wrote:Hi,
I hope someone here could help my find information about the Columbia Viva-Tonal Grafonola 109a.
we've found one in the attic in pretty bad shape (but with all the parts), and we're wondering if refurbishing it is worth the effort.
please send us any information or photos you have.
Thanks,
Yuval
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