old octagonal tabletop gramophone-- replica?

I have a friend (Adnan) with a small shop on Manger Square in Bethlehem (Palestine) selling souvenirs, antiques, etc. I noticed that he has a gramophone, octagonal in shape, missing the horn & tone arm, etc. but (he says) the turntable works OK. When looking on the internet for information about this model, I came across replicas with very similar appearance-- the wood has the same mahogany appearance. But this is most certainly quite old, as can be seen by photos. I couldn't see any model number, just the decal of the Gramophone Company and "His Master's Voice".

I've got photos but haven't yet figured out how to post them. (Please request them if you have any interest!) Any advice that I can give to him about how to sell it? Economic conditions being what they are here in the "occupied territories", he could use some cash, and any help/advice you can offer would be much appreciated!

--Dennis

Update: I've now posted some photos to imageshack:

http://imgcash1.imageshack.us/img401/23 ... 382fi8.jpg

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img140/26 ... 379ib4.jpg

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img98/834 ... 378gb0.jpg

http://imgcash1.imageshack.us/img514/35 ... 380lz6.jpg

If this is indeed a replica, it must be several years old and very maltreated!

The HMV decal gives it away. It's definately not original. HMV never made a gramophone with an octagonal case- never ever.
It might be worth buying for the motor IF it's an original, but some of these even have new reproduction motors which are very poor quality, and not worth having. Even with an original motor for spare parts, it's probably only worth $5-$10. Maybe a little more if it's got an original crank, escutcheon, speed control & brake. I only paid $35 for a complete crap-o-phone, & even that was too much.

Any news on this?

I've got photos but haven't yet figured out how to post them.

Posting images is very easy. It's basically a three step process.

1) Save the image on your own computer as a Jpg file.

2) In order to post an image onto a message board, etc., it has to be hosted on the internet and assigned a "URL" or web address. Fortunately, this can be done for free. I recommend Image Shack -- http://imageshack.us/ -- but there are many others. You do not have to register to use Image Shack, and the directions are very easy to follow.

3) After the image is hosted, you will see a number of options. Your image's direct "URL" will appear at the bottom of a list -- beginning with "http" and ending with "JPG" Simply copy this and paste it directly into your post. Then highlight the URL, and click on the "IMG" button above. This will put the URL in brackets so it appear as a picture in your post.
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I agree with Shane. I know of no octagonal cabinets made by the Gramophone Co. for their outside horn gramophones. The type of motor should be another giveaway. If it's a pillar and plate variety and says "Swiss made," etc., it's a safe bet that it was culled from a portable to make the machine.

I noticed that the jumps you posted above were for the thumbnail version of the images. I've copied them, and in each case, removed the "th.jpg" suffix and replaced it with ".jpg" so they appear full size. I've also inserted each one in its own set of image brackets, so the images appear in this post.











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The photos confirm that this is, indeed, a replica. As you note, it is a beaten up example. Possibly this was deliberately done to make it look old. Perhaps it was left out in the rain, judging from the rust.

The parts are basically mix and match, culled from various machines. The case's style, reddish lacquer finish, etc., is very typical of the reproduction machines, as is the pillar and plate type motor, though in this case, without the typical angled winding connection.


Here are a few sites describing these machines:
http://www.oldcrank.com/articles/crapop ... ction.html
http://www.mainspringpress.com/crapo.html


This is probably what it looked like when it left the workshop in India:

Thanks, joe_ds, for your evaluation, and for revising the links to the photos. Thanks also for giving me the links to the history behind these replicas.

(I suspect that Adnan didn't pay very much for this item, but he had hopes that it might be worth something-- he'll be disappointed but perhaps wiser! The economy here in Bethlehem is quite bad, and a lot of families are desperately selling old items from their homes for living expenses. A lot of the shops here have an assortment of old metal trays, pots, etc. that they are trying to sell.)

While an experienced collector may be able to spot a fake, it can be very difficult for someone not familiar with gramophones. Fortunately, today, there are a number of books, websites, etc. that provide information about gramophones manufactured by various companies. One of the most comprehensive online resources profiles the products of the Victor Talking Machine Company (VTMC) -- http://victor-victrola.com/ . In addition to supplying information about most of the models -- http://victor-victrola.com/new_page_2.htm -- it provides a description of the wood types and finishes used in the cabinets' construction -- http://victor-victrola.com/Design%20Details.htm

Since the Gramophone Co. and VTMC were basically "sister companies," many of the earlier models sold by the two firms were very similar, if not virtually identical.

By the way, one clue for the novice is the type of finish applied to the cabinet. During the era of the outside horn gramophone/phonograph, shellac was the most commonly used finish. (This is true for much of the furniture produced at the time -- circa 1900-1920.) Stained lacquer was seldom used, and most fakes are bathed in a rather sloppily applied stained lacquer coat to hide the fact that cheap wood has been used in the cabinet's construction. An aged shellac-based finish is easy to spot. Normally, it has become crazed or is slightly bumpy, and resembles dried out leather. (This is especially true if the cabinet has been sitting in a hot attic for decades.) To test if the finish is shellac-based, all you need to do is dab a Q-tip in alcohol and touch the finish in an inconspicuous area. The alcohol will dissolve the shellac after a few seconds.

Somehow that octagon lost two sides.

Record-changer wrote:Somehow that octagon lost two sides.

Good catch! I guess that would make this crap-o-phone septagonal!

Joe_DS wrote:

Record-changer wrote:Somehow that octagon lost two sides.

Good catch! I guess that would make this crap-o-phone septagonal!

C'mon Joe, hexagonal. Sorry.

C'mon Joe, hexagonal. Sorry.

Can you tell I got a "C" in Geometry?