Phonoland

? about a old 78 i have. its a victrola. it has many dates on it the latest being 1908 and it only has one playing side. where would i go to find out more about this record? could i go somewhere and enter the patent # ? any info would be helpful. thanks

Hi Renee,
Single sided records were made right from the start of disc records, and were superseeded by double sided disc around 1907 I think?? Single sided records were still made though, right into the 1950's.
Being in Australia, we have mostly HMV records, but looking at the few Victors I have, I think your was made between about 1908 and 1912. I have one that has the last patent date as 1908, and another with 1912.
You really need a discography, so you can look up the recording and release dates, using the record catalogue number and matrix numbers. I don't think they are available online unfortunately. I've sent you a personal message, to put you in touch with someone that can probably date it properly.

Patent dates have little or no bearing on the actuall recording or release date of a record.The patent date is for the method used to make the record. A good source for dating your records is "The Almost Complete Record Dating Guide (vol. 3) By Steven C. Barr. It is afordable and easy to find on the internet. There are other discographys available but they can run several hundred dollars. A great online source for many labels (though incomplete) is http://settlet.fateback.com/ or honkingduck.com.

I saw your reference to the recording, Victor 64860 on another posting board.

According to the online John McCormack Discography site, it was recorded on 11 DECEMBER 1919, in Camden, NJ, with the orchestra conducted by Josef A. Pasternack. --

SEE:
http://www.mccormacksociety.co.uk/Mccor ... graphy.htm (Click on Victor/HMV Acoustic Recordings, 1910-1925)

In the United States, the Victor Talking Machine Company continued to issue single-sided "Red Seal" discs until 1923. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Tal ... ne_Company )

You can find out tons of information about the career of John McCormack on the discography site, as well as at Wikipedia. He was/is considered by many to be one of THE greatest Irish tenors, and was extremely popular throughout the world. CDs of his recordings are still available today at most well stocked record shops, and online in MP3 format.

HTH,
Joe_DS

The first double-sided disc was made by Odeon records in 1909.

Don't let patent dates like (1902 or 1908) fool you! Many records were pressed years after these patent dates. For instance, I had a record which I originally thought was made in 1908, well guess again, when looking up the matrix number, I found to be from 1919.

One thing that erks me, I am telling ya alot of people have published online articles on it, is the value of 78's. People are usually unaware to values of 78's, alot of people sell them as "OLD RECORDS, RARE and PRICELESS"...... whether misinformed or misleading, the beginning collector should know these things:

Most Columbia 78's with Red Labels featuring artists from the 1940's and 1950's such as Doris Day, Buddy Clark, Frank Sinatra, and the like are pretty much worthless. Unless, You like that music. You can expect to maybe sell them if you are lucky at 25 cents to maybe $1.00 each ($1.00 is good).

The most collectable records are Edison Diamond Discs (52000) series, Edison 78 lateral cuts, Gennett, Columbia D series on black label. I have seen Early Okeh vertical recordings have sold as high as $125.00 each. I have also seen records bearing the Harvard label, Talk-O-Phone, Leeds and Catlin, American Record Co (Music Hath Charms) roll in the dough! Now...finally Victor Orthophonics have been selling for alot more lately. Some of them are now selling in the $20.00 range. Keep in mind an average condition playable 78 (not the 1940's columbias or Victors), will sell for $5.00 to 8.00.

As for those old red label columbias, maybe toss em, play em, I don't know, but I junked mine 10 years ago, and have no regrets.

Happy Collecting.

I know the whys of the myth that 78s are "worth money." They used to be.

The key is the rationing that went on before and during World War II:

- Rationing actually started in 1939, because Germany and Japan had captured sources of some supplies, and because FDR thought he could help the economy by rationing.

- During the rationing, you had to turn in an old record to be allowed to buy a new one.

- Many people ruined their existing record collections to buy popular records issued during the war.

- Most of the records turned in were prewar recordings.

- After the war, when the rationing was lifted, many people wanted to pay a lot to rebuild the collections they lost. This caused a shortage of these records right after the war, causing the prices to rise.

- When the LP came out, most record companies reissued their previous issues on LP. This ended the inflated prices for most records.

But this rationing also affected some recordings permanently:

- Gennett Records went bankrupt during this period. The creditors wanted their money, not record masters. The masters were sold as scrap metal. Those recordings are still rare.

- Some record companies donated their old metal masters to the scrap metal drives (recycling!) for the war effort. Those records are rare, because those companies couldn't reissue them after the war.

- Some recordings completely disappeared. All copies of them were turned in, and the metal masters were also turned in.

- Fewer than ten copies of some records are known to exist. Those are very valuable.

- Some records made in World War II are very fragile. They have cores of glass or cardboard.

- Some early records are either one-of-a-kind or 16-of-a-kind. The recordings made before the electroplating processes were invented had to be recorded from the performance. At first, the performer sat at the recorder all day, playing the same song over and over. Later, they lined up 16 recorders to capture each performance.

Some early records are either one-of-a-kind or 16-of-a-kind. The recordings made before the electroplating processes were invented had to be recorded from the performance. At first, the performer sat at the recorder all day, playing the same song over and over. Later, they lined up 16 recorders to capture each performance.

Hi RecordChanger:

Of course, disc records, from the start, had the advantage of being easily reproduced from stampers. As for cylinder records, in addition to direct recording, many if not most companies used a pantographic process, which is described in "From Tinfoil to Stereo," and other books. (A mention of this is made on this page: http://www.tinfoil.com/record.htm ) This was far from fool-proof, and the number of copies that could be recorded pantographically from an original cylinder was strictly limited. It was quickly abandoned in favor of the "Gold Mould" type processes when they were introduced, I believe in 1902.

Re: Gennett, you might find this Wikipedia article of interest -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennett_Records

Also, Rick Kennedy's "Bix, Roll & Hoagy: Gennett Studios and the Birth of Recorded Jazz," is a must-read for any jazz record fan.