Cleaning 78 Record

I learned my lesson the hard way: window cleaner is NOT suitable for 78s. I have several discs with permanent spray spatters on the surface - it doesn't affect the sound quality, but holy cow, does it look bad. Obviously they must've been cheap or recycled shellac records.
I have a friend who swears by using diluted Fantastik cleaner, at least for vinyl - not sure what he uses on 78s. I'll have to get the correct dilution formula - I tried it straight and it left a good film on the record surface.
Regarding the comments about waxed or polished records...uurrggghhh . I know a local dealer who does that and though it makes the records look nifty, the polish job is also VERY audible.

Wand143,

Glass cleaners are primarily ammonia-bad stuff for our purposes. "Fantasik" has a long named chemical as it's primary ingredient with "alki" something or other ( An alkaline I'd assume) and "ammonium" whatnot (obviously containing ammonia) another baddy. I have heard from some collectors that "Fantastik" will partially liquify the finish even the Japanning on back brackets. Diluted or not I wouldn't let that stuff anywhere near my records. A fellow member here recommended trying "Simple Green" I haven't looked into it myself but I have heard it's a very gentle product. I would try a very diluted preparation and increase the strength until I got results.

One thing that just occurred to me. I would be very careful even with water if the record was a twenties era Columbia or client label. Those are laminated discs with a paper or cardboard type center layer. They often have rim chips or tight cracks in the lamination that don't affect play. If water were to seep in there-well you'd get a fat record!

Regards,
J.

Folks,

I've heard back from the makers of WD-40.

"... Thank you for contacting the WD-40 Company and we appreciate your interest in our product. WD-40 contains mineral spirits, which will soften and remove varnish. We recommend you discuss your application with an restoration expert.

Thank you again for contacting the WD-40 Company. Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Best regards,
XXXXXXXXXX
WD-40 Customer Service"

That's enough for me. I won't be using it, at least for records!

Regards,
J.

It works great in getting the squeak out of my daughter's toy shopping cart and prevents my ice chopper from getting rusty...as for records, no way!
Thanks for the tip on Fantastik - I'll put it back under the sink where it belongs and look into the Simple Green alternative. If it's successful on 78s, I'll give it a shot on 45s and LPs, too. I've heard some good comments from others who have used it on records.

Most 78s out there have spent the past several years in basements, garages, and who knows where. Before that they were used mostly in the home. Their condition now depends upon how they were played and treated as a new record....and on what type of machine they were played on....and then how they have been stored. A new record brought home in the early 1900's would have spent some time in a home that was smoked in, cooked in, heated with coal or wood. In the summer windows were open and there would be a daily film of dust covering everything. I have tried everything from soft scrub to lighter fluid. There are some good suggestions here on this forum to get you started and my advice is to try them all. We all have records we don't want. I have a pile espescially for skeet shooting. If a record is well used theres not much you can do. So just experiment....
The records that need no cleaning or a lite dusting with a damp cloth are the keepers. Those are the ones that end up in my collection. I admit I do still clean a record if it needs it and it is one that I like, but it does not end up in my collection. Those records are the ones that "get played" and I keep them just for that.

toomany78s wrote: ...The records that need no cleaning or a lite dusting with a damp cloth are the keepers. Those are the ones that end up in my collection. I admit I do still clean a record if it needs it and it is one that I like, but it does not end up in my collection. Those records are the ones that "get played" and I keep them just for that.

Toomany,

Don't you play the ones in your "collection"?

Regards,
J.

Toomany,

Don't you play the ones in your "collection"?

Regards,
J.[/quote]


I try to play every record that I bring into the house. A mint record I play much less. Maybe once every couple of years. Not that I am worried about wear rather than the fact that I have so many other records to play that are not mint...but still very good players ...and I enjoy them just as much.

toomany78s wrote:
I try to play every record that I bring into the house. A mint record I play much less. Maybe once every couple of years. Not that I am worried about wear rather than the fact that I have so many other records to play that are not mint...but still very good players ...and I enjoy them just as much.

Toomany...,

Oh! The way I read your post I thought you put the very best records away and never played them. I too will "save" very clean copies for special occasion playing. I have a very nice McCormack Macushla that I usually only play with fibre needles for company.

Regards,
J.

This link is a good summary of the chemical properties of Shellac.

http://www.engg.ksu.edu/hsrc/97Proceed/ ... tical.html

Shellac Properties Review

Shellac is the purified product of the hardened resinous secretion of a parasitic insect on certain trees and bushes of India, Myanmar, and Thailand. The shellac resin is hard, tough, and non-toxic and produces water-resistant films.

Since shellac is a natural product of animal origin, it differs somewhat from one source to another. Average property values are questionable since early studies neglected temperature and humidity effects. The best solvents for shellac are the lower alcohols, methyl and ethyl, followed by amyl alcohols, glycols, and glycol ethers. Shellac is insoluble in esters, ethers (except glycol ethers), hydrocarbons, chlorinated solvents, and water. It can be dispersed in water with soda ash, borax, ammonia, morpholine, or triethanolamine.

Shellac contains approximately 67.9% carbon, 9.1% hydrogen, and 23.0% oxygen for an empirical formula of C4H6O. Based on a molecular weight of about 1000, the average molecule has the formula C60H90O15. It contains one free-acid group, three ester linkages, five hydroxyl groups, and possibly a free or potential aldehyde group. This is indicated by the acid value, hydroxyl value, saponification value, and carbonyl value. Its ionization constant is 1.8X10-5.

Based on the previous post, a pure hydrocarbon would work. Anything that does not have every substance listed on the label should be avoided unless you want to risk permanant damage. Hydrocarbons include kerosene, gasoline and most of the things found in WD-40. The problem is that the contents of WD40 are not listed. Hydrocarbon solvents dissolve hydrocarbons. Water dissolves water-soluble substances. Except for grease from handling, hydrocarbon-based grime is not likely to be found on records. Dust and dirt should come off with a mild soap solution and careful wiping and rinsing. Greasy hands leave prints and grime which might dissolve in soap. Allowing a soapy solution to sit on the surface a few moments will help dissolve dry particles. Examining the grooves with a 10X loupe is revealing. I rinsed my records under a slow stream of cold water from the tap. I noticed that tiny dust particles would divert the water forming an upside down V. This indicated more cleaning was necessary.

There's a lot I agree with here - and a lot I do not agree with.

Peroxide will attack the shellac. Likewise, bleach will attack shellac - it typically contains 3% to 5% caustic soda to stabilise the sodium hypochlorite (the bleaching agent), and that makes it very strongly alkaline. Soap is alkaline, too. Alkaline solutions are bad for shellac. Alcohols = VERY BAD.

Mould is fairly common on 78s that have been stored in a damp shed or garage.

The best cleaning agent that is easily available is shower cleaner, which usually contains non-ionic surfactants that have additional anti-mould effects. Check the label - you want non-ionic, not anionic or cationic surfactants.

Using hand operated trigger sprays is a good way to wash and rinse. Rinse with small amounts of demineralised water.

Immersing 78s is a bad idea - a lot of them are laminated, the core is made of a composition of glue and fine dust, often coal or slate dust. The early ones have a layer of paper below the playing surface, on later discs the paper was eliminated and the shellac went straight onto the core. Prolonged immersion can make the surface blister and flake off.

Shellac does take up water (so does a sponge, and it doesn't dissolve, either) so it is wise to let a 78 dry for 24hr after cleaning, even if you do intend to play it "wet". Playing records "wet" increases friction, and the stylus gets hot. Personal experience has shown that playing 78s "wet" immediately after cleaning often results in fragments of shellac welding themselves to the stylus, and they are the very devil to get off. The best way I have found to play 78s "wet" is to apply the water with a "Lencoclean", so the water application is light.

If there is something greasy on a disc, lighter fuel (as used in Zippo lighters) is an easily available inert solvent for shifting it - a reasonably pure hydrocarbon mixture.

More of my drivel -

http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225

dotfret wrote:...
Shellac does take up water (so does a sponge, and it doesn't dissolve, either) so it is wise to let a 78 dry for 24hr after cleaning, ....
If there is something greasy on a disc, lighter fuel (as used in Zippo lighters) is an easily available inert solvent for shifting it - a reasonably pure hydrocarbon mixture.

More of my drivel -

http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225

Dotfret,

YES! very important. I don't know if I had remembered to mention that-probably forgot-let those records dry! A question about the soap. I've never used it but I've always heard the caveat-use a very neutral dish soap like Ivory and maybe Dawn.

I have used lighter fluid to remove stickers on labels without seeming to harm the shellac underneath. I would almost be afraid to try it on the shellac itself, but ....

I have read discussions about fibre needles contributing to mold growth on shellac. I think one of the best and simplest things one can do is brush your records before and after each play.

Regards,
J.

That is probably not mold in the grooves, but grooves played with a worn stylus. That's one (too late) symptom of using a worn stylus.

I have always used Nitty Gritty Pure 1. It is specifically formulated for 78's. It is available from Chad Kassem at Acoustic Sounds or direct form Nitty Gritty. They also have record cleaning machines that will handle 78's. NEVER play any record while it is wet! Audiophiles have long known that this causes permanent and irreversible damage. There is some sonic benefit to be obtained, but the reocording can never be appreciated dry again because of the excessive surface noise. Hydraulics, abrasives (dirt) and a stylus do not make for gentle treament.

You can also try a paint pad. The kind used for getting into corners. It's about 2" X 2" with a handle and has thousands of short bristles that really get into the grooves. As for the solution, I use a little Dawn in some soft water or distilled water and dry them with a micro-fibre cloth and let them sit awhile. I have used this procedure for all my records including 78s.