Seeburg USC1 Bandshell STOPPED!

Keith,
Put thy finger on the detent release lever, and hold it down--if it rejects without an electrical "pulse" there, it's mechanical--check the clutch adjustments starting with #1, AFTER you PROPERLY oil the mechanism, with the PROPER oil. Ron Rich

Right, all clutch adjustments made and hopefully an end is in sight as I have now seen that the worm pin is catching on the top drive pin when in play mode (causing the reject). It is impossible to see for sure without a complete strip down of the clutch assembly, but it looks like retaining ring "A" is missing, or perhaps the bottom spacer. The worm has a vertical travel of approx. 1mm and the manual says it should have only 003-007 end play between the retaining rings.

Are the retaining rings "E" clips? and does anyone know what size they are?

As you have learned from the rollers issue- this bandshell has gone without proper lubrication by the owner for too long and that is what is causing problems. Lubricating everything that moves (except electrical contacts) with 3-IN-One motor oil can make this jukebox sing. Lowes sells 3 oz 3-in-1 Electric Motor Oil for $2.69 Item #: 95565 | Model #: 10045.

If you look at 20-30 page 43 lubrication chart top picture you will see Clutch Yoke Hub. It is not easy to get to this with the record rack in the way but you need to lubricate this as much as possible along with the entire clutch.

Also guessing the Pickup Assembly is in dire need of lubricating all those little pivot points since they too bind up with old varnish and cause problems like you are describing.

I would put an old cookie sheet under the mech to catch the drips and lubricate everything. Get creative with how to get oil to those hard to reach spots.

I doubt if you are missing parts to the clutch. Yes those are e-clips. Do you have a USC1 parts manual?

USC1 Service Manual 20-30 beginning page 22 talks about adjusting the Pickup Assembly. If after lubricating the clutch and pickup assembly the bandshell still rejects intermittently, you could walk down these pickup adjustments. Also when doing anything with the pickup assembly be very careful with those small fragile wires at the bottom of the blue arm.

I mentioned in my earlier comment below that it is important to oil the clutch yoke hub as this part gets varnish inside the shaft and can cause reject problems. If you watch a youtube seeburg clutch tour video around minute 4+ you can see exactly what needs to be lubricated on the yoke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agB9b05b-MM

Also - when I read your early on post, you mentioned manually moving the mech carriage down the track. Never move it by spinning the turntable. If you need to manually move the mech carriage, turn the motor coupling as is shown also in this youtube video.

I know you said you had oiled the guide rollers to fix the first problem. I suggest also removing the gear rack and cleaning the crud that has built up under it from the guide rollers. See 20-30 page 14. The gear rack track is actually in two sections which are secured with screws. With the mech carraige at one end, you can remove a section of the gear rack to degrease it and reinstall it. Then with the service switch you can move the carriage to the other end thus allowing you to remove the other section of the gear rack track for cleaning. Years worth of hard solid black "lubrication" are stuck up under the gear rack where the guide rollers go.

Lastly if you cannot easily get oil to a spot - get creative. I tape oil saturated q-tips to flexible wire. Ron convinced me to buy a little applicator bottle with a long plastic tube to get into tight places. He also told me I could use a long screwdriver and drip the oil down the shaft of the screwdriver to the needed spot. We are thankful to have Ron - he has taught so much to so many.

Hi Mark

Thanks for the info. The video was very good.

I will remove the rack and clean that, but my problem of the worm pin hitting the top drive pin can only be happening because there is too much play in the worm.

I have oiled all the clutch very well and everything appears to be moving freely, but the two pins coming in contact with each other is a real problem.

I will have another look at the pickup assembly and check all the adjustments.

I only have the Service Manual. I don't have the Parts or Operators manuals.

Hello Keith. Glad you liked the clutch tour vid - made it when I just learned how a seeburg clutch works so I was just rambling. Amazing how the same clutch was used by Seeburg in the 50s, 60s, 70s jukeboxes.

Confused by your statement that the problem is the worm pin hitting the top drive pin.

Let me try and understand. Looking at service manual 20-30 page 7. There is a Worm and on the bottom of that Worm there is a vertical bump sticking down they call the Worm Pin. Then below that there are two horizontal clutch member pins (that look like pins) that have been inserted through holes in the shaft. Between these two horizontal pins is the Clutch Member which moves up and down engaging one horizontal pin or the other. Below the clutch member there is a Sprocket which has a vertical bump on the top of it they call the Sprocket Pin.

Now when the Clutch Yoke Assembly (the thing I mention often needing oil) pushes the Clutch member up then both the worm pin and the upper horizontal pin are located inside that valley and spin. When the Yoke pushes the Clutch Member down then both the Sprocket Pin and the lower horizontal pin are located inside the other valley and spin causing the carriage to scan.

Regarding removing the record rack. Ron has cautioned me against removing the record rack unless really necessary because of the alignment challenges of getting the record rack back in correctly. I had no choice but to remove the record rack because the clutch in the video was (seriously) filled with concrete like hardened lubricant that spray degreaser had no effect on. Of course the video was after soaking in degreaser so the clutch looks clean and moves freely.

IF you decide to remove the record rack here are suggestions to take seriously: Use an awl to scratch the base around all 4 feet so you know exactly where to put it back in the same place. When removing the four screws note which one secured which foot as they like going back into the hole they each came from. Take pics of the wiring (front pop meter / gray box / etc) before removing wires so you know which lead is which. Never lift the rack by the contact block if you want the selection lights to work properly - grab it on the sides and lift straight up so as not to bend / damage the shoes on the contacts coming up from the clutch. Sidenote - if the paper record numbers on the rack are old, you can download a file to print off new numbering strips from the files section of the Yahoo Seeburg Group.

Without removing the record rack you can get a little more work room by scanning the carriage all the way down to the other end then remove the gray box.

Hi Mark

I already have the grey box removed (only way to do the clutch adjustments). I don't really want to remove the record rack.

Just to recap what is going on: When in play position, the worm pin is hitting the top horizontal clutch member pin (described as drive pin, page 8 E).

The clutch member itself is in the correct position, below the worm pin and above the sprocket pin (page 10 B).

As far as I can tell, the worm pin should never come in contact with the top horizontal clutch member pin. The spacer and retaining ring A (page 7) should prevent this.

I don't know whether to remove all the clutch and rebuild it, or to just insert a new retaining ring (E clip). There is plenty of play in the worm for a new retaining ring.

Keith,
I am having a problem following your terminology--Which manual are you looking at ?
Ron Rich

Service Manual USC1 Manual No. 497777.

Keith,
Funny--I have an original copy of that number manual--however my pages are not numbered as you state--
Look to see if you have a copy of the "clutch and housing assembly instructions". It's on page 7 --section 20-30 of my copy. If so, please re-define the terms-- Ron Rich

Hi Ron

Okay, I will work from page 7 section 20-30 "CLUTCH AND HOUSING ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS", and ignore all other pages and terminology for now.

The "WORM" (as pictured) has a nipple sticking down on the bottom edge (pictured on the bottom right of the worm).

This nipple is hitting the top pin (of the two "pins" pictured to the right of the "clutch member") when the mech is in the "PLAY" position.

After time.... this hitting causes the "worm" to rotate to the right which causes the record to reject.

Keith,
Got it now--yes, from what you write, it appears that the retaining ring (A) is missing from your clutch assembly-You should be able to see it, if there?-is the upper (B) one there ? I have never seen one "missing", or, for that mater, "failed".
This is a "special-case hardened "C- ring" as shown in that drawing.

Hi Ron

Yes, the top one is there. The bottom one is very difficult to see because of the frame casting. I can see something under there, but I can't tell if it is the ring or the spacer. There is definitely too much play in the worm.

Where would I get a new ring and what size is it?

Keith,
"New one" ?? I dono--maybe there is a store somewhere that sells them, but I don't know how/where to find it--
I have a few used ones, Want to "make me an offer I can't refuse" ? (PM me with your address !)
Ron Rich