Phonoland

Here is a problem I have not run into before, play C1, it will play E7, the correct pin (c1) is up and stops at c1. the magazine is always"s about 30 degrees off from the selected pin , I checked the magazine drive pin, it's Ok.
Is there a way to rotate the crank arm?
Thanks in advance, Big Frank

Frank, is the carousel and crank assembly locked together? When the carousel stops at a record the crank underneath should NOT start to rotate backwards.

If that is not happening the problem is most likely dirty-sticky backstop pawls. One clue here is that the machine will fail by having a record come up from the opposite side from the where the selected disk is. So and an "A" side selected will play something on the other side of the carousel.

If someone has tampered with the micro-switch on the crank assembly this might cause erratic indexing too. With power off manually pop a pin, turn the carousel and watch the action of the crank switch as the carousel stops against the pin. The switch should be fully actuated (compressed) but the actuating screw should not stop hard against the switch lever itself. Often as these switches begin to fail people will fiddle with the adjustments to try and restore operation.

One rule-of-thumb: Adjustments are to be the LAST thing to touch when troubleshooting this, or any other type of equipment.

Rob-NYC

Frank,
I only have this to add to Rob's great advice--
Look at the backstop pawls, If some "clown" has oiled/greased them, you will need to remove ALL of it. If they are dry, but dusty--just blow them off, ( do not loose the spring), with a can of "dustoff", or similar item. Look at the base of them--they were "painted in place" by the factory--if at all possible, do not "re-adjust" them, even though the procedure is in the Service Manual. Ron Rich

Lubricated the stops, they seem fine. If I pull pin C1 for example and rotate the carousel until it stops on C1 (with the power off) I would expect to see the carousel center ring labeled C1/C2 in position of the transfer arm, instead
I see E5/E6 in position of the transfer arm or arms. All the selections are incorrect in a similar fashion.
I could relabel the carousel and the machine would work fine.
I don't know the history of this machine, maybe someone replaced the carousel from a different model?

Frank,
Which "ring" are you reading --the top, middle or bottom ?
Compare the two LOWER silk screens--
Also--if you have "lubed" the back-stops, you have given yourself a headache, later on down the road--those MUST BE KEPT, clean, and dry !
Ron Rich

It has an upper and lower ring on the carousel, the top ring is white and is the "selection playing" ring,
the lower ring is gray and that is the ring you use to load the records.
I have been referring to the lower gray ring is out of sync with the selection pin crank arm.
I positioned the carousel A1/A2 on the gray ring over the left side transfer arm and I noticed the upper white ring
should be A1 front and center where the selection playing glass is located, that is off by quit a bit also.
I wonder if the carousel was taken apart and improperly reassembled?

Frank,
If you look above the "pins" (that are "released", when a selection is made), there should be silk screening there to ID each pin. See if this pin ID agrees, or, does not agree, with the selection played. For now--disregard the upper, smaller, white ring, with numbers on it.
Ron Rich

If I select C1 on the keyboard, C1 pin will pull and does agree with the silkscreen on the pinbank.

Frank,
OK--then, which record is pushed up--is it 180 degrees from the C-1 slot ( the other side of the carrousel) ?
Ron Rich

When the record is pushed up on the left side (looking at the machine from the front) It is playing E5 according to the
lower gray ring on the carousel.
C1 on the gray ring is 2 whole letter sections clockwise, in other words C1 on the gray carousel ring is facing the rear of the machine.
It is not 180 degrees off, it is about 30 degrees off

I tried to load some pics, It uploads them into attachments but that is as far as I am able to go with that.

Still attempting to visualize exactly what is happening here--
Does the crank arm hit the C-1 pin, or does the carriage stop turning prior to the pin touching it ? If it hits the pin, does it cancel it, and spring forward, as it should ? Does the record holder spin backward, at all ? Does the selection playing indicator (top most ring) indicate C-1, or something else ? Ron Rich

The crank arm stops at C1 hits C1 pin and cancels C1 as it should then springs forward after cancel as it should.
Crank arm goes directly to C1 without stopping or going backwards as normal.
While the crank arm is against C1 pin it is lifting up E5 as indicated on the lower gray ring on carousel
The selection playing indicator (top most ring) indicates something else even if I were to rotate the carousel
to C1 play position the selection playing indicator would still be incorrect, not even close.

If you are sure that the correct pin is punched and the mech is not overtraveling and the slots are off by the same amount all around I then suggest looking at these pics of a later W200 mech:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/231419514090?clk ... rmvSB=true

The third shot is of the underside of the carousel. The slot for the crank is visible. If the crank is properly seated the lower crank (the one that hits the pins) and the carousel will be locked in unison.

If so, i suspect that somewhere along the line the letters and number strips have been removed. This was done if the carousel was washed because they will wash off if strong chemicals are used. Someone just put them back incorrectly. The top "selection playing" ring almost never centers perfectly, so "close enough" is good enough for rock 'n roll.
While f-ups like this are not unusual -this- one is a first for me.

Rob-NYC

The carousel is definitely locked onto that pin properly, I removed the carousel and rechecked it. This is a
surprise to me also, somebody got lazy and didn't want to correct their shoddy workmanship.
Looks like I have a fun day of work to look forward to, Thanks guys for all your input.

Hi Frank,
I have seen the pin out of place one, or two of them--but it seems to me, that I could put the service lever in "service position", grab hold of the crank arm with one hand, and the basket with the other, and see if independent movement is possible--It should NOT be !
As for the upper "selection now playing" display ring--WurliTzer made that in at least, two different versions--they are interchangeable, but will not "read" correctly through the view window, if the wrong version is installed, as the view window position differs.
Ron Rich