Help with Brunswick Ultona
Q&A about Talking Machines from the pre-electronic era (approx. 1885-1928).
Can someone tell me how to operate a 1918 Brunswick Ultona. I crank it but nothing seems to happen. There is no spring load. I opened it up and the 2 drums seem to be spring loaded when turned by hand.
This is no help with the problem you're having, but here's a link to an on-line manual about using the reproducer you can print out.
http://nipperhead.com/old/brult.htm
As for the motor, it could be a number of things, from stripped gears to broken springs or the springs being unhooked from the centre arbor. I'd suggest removing the motor, and winding it up with the handle to see just whats happening. The shaft that the handle turns should have a small gear, which when turned, meshes with a gear which extends from the centre of the first spring barrel. The gear is attached to a rod which passes through the barrel & attaches to the spring. If this gear is turning while you wind it, it should be pulling the spring in to wind it up.
Sometimes the spring can become unhooked from this rod, so can't pull on the spring. Also, if the spring is broken close to the centre, the same thing applies. The springs can also be broken or unhooked on the outer end, but you will normally feel a little resistance from the spring winding up, then hear a noise from the spring slipping in the barrel if that's the case.
My guess is the spring has broken at the centre, so you may have to pull the barrels out, open them up & inspect them. If one is broken, replacements are easy to get, and I think?? cost about $25 to self-install.
If you haven't replaced springs before, you may be better off sending the barrels to someone like George Vollema of "Great Lakes Antique Phonographs" if you're in the USA to have a replacement fitted, and both springs regreased to help prevent future breakages. A google search will bring up his web page.
http://nipperhead.com/old/brult.htm
As for the motor, it could be a number of things, from stripped gears to broken springs or the springs being unhooked from the centre arbor. I'd suggest removing the motor, and winding it up with the handle to see just whats happening. The shaft that the handle turns should have a small gear, which when turned, meshes with a gear which extends from the centre of the first spring barrel. The gear is attached to a rod which passes through the barrel & attaches to the spring. If this gear is turning while you wind it, it should be pulling the spring in to wind it up.
Sometimes the spring can become unhooked from this rod, so can't pull on the spring. Also, if the spring is broken close to the centre, the same thing applies. The springs can also be broken or unhooked on the outer end, but you will normally feel a little resistance from the spring winding up, then hear a noise from the spring slipping in the barrel if that's the case.
My guess is the spring has broken at the centre, so you may have to pull the barrels out, open them up & inspect them. If one is broken, replacements are easy to get, and I think?? cost about $25 to self-install.
If you haven't replaced springs before, you may be better off sending the barrels to someone like George Vollema of "Great Lakes Antique Phonographs" if you're in the USA to have a replacement fitted, and both springs regreased to help prevent future breakages. A google search will bring up his web page.
The gears look ok so I assume you are right about the springs. Has anyone written an article on reparing the barrels? I would like to fix them but not get killed doing it.
Hi John,
I've just uploaded a video on youtube of me pulling a spring out & replacing it.
Unfortunately it's not all that clear, and my "commentary" could be better, but it might give you some idea what to expect if you attempt to do the spring yourself.
I'm seriously thinking about doing a better one when time permits.
Read the description in the box next to the video too.
Some things I didn't make clear was when removing it, I hold down the outter rings of the spring with my fingers, while removing the spring from the centre with my other hand.
Also, when I'm replacing the spring in the barrel, I use the palm of my hand to hold the spring down in the barrel as I feed it in, so it can't jump back out at you.
Of course, once the springs out, you'll need to thoroughly clean the barrel, and the old spring if it's to be reused.
Normally, once it's clean, I'll put a dollop of grease in the bottom of the barrel before feeding the spring back in, and once it's in, I'll pack more grease into the centre loops.
Once the motors together, I wind it up & let it run down a couple times to distribute the grease around the whole spring.
I hope this helps, and if you have any questions, just ask.
Good luck!
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rbPa-VWAzSY
I've just uploaded a video on youtube of me pulling a spring out & replacing it.
Unfortunately it's not all that clear, and my "commentary" could be better, but it might give you some idea what to expect if you attempt to do the spring yourself.
I'm seriously thinking about doing a better one when time permits.
Read the description in the box next to the video too.
Some things I didn't make clear was when removing it, I hold down the outter rings of the spring with my fingers, while removing the spring from the centre with my other hand.
Also, when I'm replacing the spring in the barrel, I use the palm of my hand to hold the spring down in the barrel as I feed it in, so it can't jump back out at you.
Of course, once the springs out, you'll need to thoroughly clean the barrel, and the old spring if it's to be reused.
Normally, once it's clean, I'll put a dollop of grease in the bottom of the barrel before feeding the spring back in, and once it's in, I'll pack more grease into the centre loops.
Once the motors together, I wind it up & let it run down a couple times to distribute the grease around the whole spring.
I hope this helps, and if you have any questions, just ask.
Good luck!
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rbPa-VWAzSY
Great video, Thanks. Is that spring out of a brunswick unit. My spring looks larger.
Hi John,
No, it's about half the size as the Brunswick.
I got your PM a few hours ago. I actually wrote a reply, took some px of my brunny motor, and tried to explain how to get the barrels out & opened etc etc.
It took nearly an hour, but about 5 seconds after I pushed "send", my connection cut out
*#@* optus! 
I was really P'd off, and didn't want to start all over again straight away 
Its about 12.45am here at the moment, so I'll redo it all for you tomorrow afternoon when I get home.
Just to get you started til then though, see if you can get the barrels out. My motors different to yours (mines about a 1927/28) but yours should be similar.
In the pic below, you can see the end of the shaft that runs throuh the barrels, and a small screw directly above it on the rounded silver frame. By taking this screw out, you can then remove the shaft by pushing it through with a screw driver. I couldn't see this screw in the photo you sent me, but it may be on the side or at the opposite end to mine. I did see a screw in line with the shaft along a long flat surface on your motor, but I'm not sure if thats the right one, not being familiar with the earlier motor. But have a good look, and there should be one there somewhere that holds the shaft in place.
Once you've removed the shaft, the barrel will lift straight out.
I've had this machine for 18 yrs, and never had the motor out before, so I'm glad I did- as you can see it's in desperate need of a clean & service.
No, it's about half the size as the Brunswick.
I got your PM a few hours ago. I actually wrote a reply, took some px of my brunny motor, and tried to explain how to get the barrels out & opened etc etc.
It took nearly an hour, but about 5 seconds after I pushed "send", my connection cut out
*#@* optus! I was really P'd off, and didn't want to start all over again straight away Its about 12.45am here at the moment, so I'll redo it all for you tomorrow afternoon when I get home.
Just to get you started til then though, see if you can get the barrels out. My motors different to yours (mines about a 1927/28) but yours should be similar.
In the pic below, you can see the end of the shaft that runs throuh the barrels, and a small screw directly above it on the rounded silver frame. By taking this screw out, you can then remove the shaft by pushing it through with a screw driver. I couldn't see this screw in the photo you sent me, but it may be on the side or at the opposite end to mine. I did see a screw in line with the shaft along a long flat surface on your motor, but I'm not sure if thats the right one, not being familiar with the earlier motor. But have a good look, and there should be one there somewhere that holds the shaft in place.
Once you've removed the shaft, the barrel will lift straight out.
I've had this machine for 18 yrs, and never had the motor out before, so I'm glad I did- as you can see it's in desperate need of a clean & service.
If neither drum turns when cranked can I assuem they are both broken?
Hi John,
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. I kind of ran out of time.
Ah, the spring barrels not turning doesn't necessarily mean both are broken. Actually it's pretty rare to get 2 broken springs at the same time. If you look at the pic of my motor, you can see the big cog sitting next to the barrel. That cog is attached to the spring, and as you wind it up, it pulls the spring in. If one is broken or unhooked, then it can't pull either spring in, so nothing happens. Really, the only way to know whats going on for sure, is to remove the barrel & open it up.
If you lift out the springs, then pull both gears off the barrel, you may be able to hear a bit of broken spring rattling around inside when you shake it. See if you can get the barrel out of the motor, and even if you decide to have it done by someone else, it's cheaper & easier to send the barrel, than the whole complete motor. Once you get the barrel out though, it shouldn't be too hard to open it up & check the springs.
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. I kind of ran out of time.
Ah, the spring barrels not turning doesn't necessarily mean both are broken. Actually it's pretty rare to get 2 broken springs at the same time. If you look at the pic of my motor, you can see the big cog sitting next to the barrel. That cog is attached to the spring, and as you wind it up, it pulls the spring in. If one is broken or unhooked, then it can't pull either spring in, so nothing happens. Really, the only way to know whats going on for sure, is to remove the barrel & open it up.
If you lift out the springs, then pull both gears off the barrel, you may be able to hear a bit of broken spring rattling around inside when you shake it. See if you can get the barrel out of the motor, and even if you decide to have it done by someone else, it's cheaper & easier to send the barrel, than the whole complete motor. Once you get the barrel out though, it shouldn't be too hard to open it up & check the springs.
I removed the barrels. Looks like the springs came loose from the gears. How do I hook them up to the springs. Looks tricky.
If the spring has come unhooked, you should be able to turn each gear anti-clockwise a couple times, and the spring will hook onto the rivet. Also, the gear should pull straight out from the barrel. If the gear won't pull out, then you've got a small piece of the broken spring on the gear.
If the gear comes out but won't hook the spring, get a torch and have a look in the barrel hole.
You might have to use a screw driver to push it around slightly, but you should be able to find the end of the spring. It should have a pear shaped hole in it, which will either look fine or be broken across this hole.
If it's OK then you might be able to bend the spring inwards using long nose pliers through the hole, but you risk damaging the edge of it which can cause it to break later on.
If it's broken or still won't hook up, then you've got no option but to open the barrel.
The barrel pulls apart at the centre, but I did mine last night & had a bit of trouble opening it. I had to tap the lip of the barrel all the way around gradually before it they separated. Make sure the little dimples in the lower barrel line up with the slot in the upper one like in the picture below. The little screw on the barrel is for adding lubricant when the barrels together & the springs are fully wound.
Once it's open you can remove the broken spring or bend the end easier. If it's broken, there's probably no sense in removing it as I do in the video. I used to grab the end with pliers & put them in a potato sack then grab the pliers from outside the bag, then give it shake around & the spring flies out without risk of injury
Here's a couple pix of my motor, before & after.
If the gear comes out but won't hook the spring, get a torch and have a look in the barrel hole.
You might have to use a screw driver to push it around slightly, but you should be able to find the end of the spring. It should have a pear shaped hole in it, which will either look fine or be broken across this hole.
If it's OK then you might be able to bend the spring inwards using long nose pliers through the hole, but you risk damaging the edge of it which can cause it to break later on.
If it's broken or still won't hook up, then you've got no option but to open the barrel.
The barrel pulls apart at the centre, but I did mine last night & had a bit of trouble opening it. I had to tap the lip of the barrel all the way around gradually before it they separated. Make sure the little dimples in the lower barrel line up with the slot in the upper one like in the picture below. The little screw on the barrel is for adding lubricant when the barrels together & the springs are fully wound.
Once it's open you can remove the broken spring or bend the end easier. If it's broken, there's probably no sense in removing it as I do in the video. I used to grab the end with pliers & put them in a potato sack then grab the pliers from outside the bag, then give it shake around & the spring flies out without risk of injury
Here's a couple pix of my motor, before & after.
Shane, great pics. I think the springs are broken and I am at the barrel separation stage. Is it safe to open the barrels or is there a chance the springs will fly out? I was thinking of inverting a plastic milk crate, barrel inside and then a coat hanger to release the spring.
Looks like the springs are broken. Any ideas where I can get a deal on a couple.
Hi John,
Sorry for the slow responce- I haven't logged in for a couple days.
Looks like you got the barrel open OK. Your milk crate idea sounds alright. Just watch for flying grease when you do it.
For the springs, I'd try APSCO or George Vollema at Great Lakes Antique Phono's.
APSCO: http://www.antiquephono.com/othmotor.htm
George: http://www.victroladoctor.com/
Just send them an email stating what you're after, and the model number of your machine if you know it, and one or both should have the right springs in stock.
Also, make a note of which way the spring has to be inserted- there's nothing worse than finding you've put them in backwards and having to start again.
Sorry for the slow responce- I haven't logged in for a couple days.
Looks like you got the barrel open OK. Your milk crate idea sounds alright. Just watch for flying grease when you do it.
For the springs, I'd try APSCO or George Vollema at Great Lakes Antique Phono's.
APSCO: http://www.antiquephono.com/othmotor.htm
George: http://www.victroladoctor.com/
Just send them an email stating what you're after, and the model number of your machine if you know it, and one or both should have the right springs in stock.
Also, make a note of which way the spring has to be inserted- there's nothing worse than finding you've put them in backwards and having to start again.
I saw his site. $38 + shipping seems a bit much. Especially since I may need a few and thats more then the I paid for the machine and/or its worth.
I'm not sure you'll find new springs any cheaper- one of the other guy's might know of somewhere else?
Still, I think a Brunny upright is still worth $200+ in the USA. Over here you'd be very lucky to get one under $500.
You could keep an eye on Ebay for a brunswick motor that works, which you may pick up for about the price of one spring or less. Brunswicks are a good quality machine, with a pretty good sound & reputation, so it's not a bad investment. Working examples only go up in value over time, and you get to enjoy using it as well.
Still, I think a Brunny upright is still worth $200+ in the USA. Over here you'd be very lucky to get one under $500.
You could keep an eye on Ebay for a brunswick motor that works, which you may pick up for about the price of one spring or less. Brunswicks are a good quality machine, with a pretty good sound & reputation, so it's not a bad investment. Working examples only go up in value over time, and you get to enjoy using it as well.
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