Newbie Questions Regarding Choice Of Juke

Hi folks! been lurking here a while but thought I'd finally post something.

I'm in the process of looking for my first jukebox and had a few questions where I can't find the answers online. If the answers are available somewhere, I apologise

1) I'm considering a variety of jukes, and have come across a late 70s rockola that is an "integrated circuit" model. My concern would be the ability to repair it as most likely the ICs are no longer made. Is this likely to be just the amp that is IC? Or may other harder to replace components also be like this? I assume if an IC amp was to fail its possible to replace the amp entirely for something else

2) I collect all kinds of music, while most of my 45s are 60s rock and pop, I also have later stuff from the 70s and more recent. I want to get something versatile, and have mainly been looking at mid-late 60s Rockolas. It's perhaps a subjective question but do newer records sound bad on older jukes? I'm considering either valve or transistor based - doesn't bother me.

I'd appreciate if you could help me with the above, I want to make sure I'm going to be happy with whatever I choose

Thanks
Adam

Adam, I'll give personal opinion:

Prior to the late 70's most jukes had mediocre treble response. The sole exceptions are the Seeburgs beginning with the 1966 "Showcase" model. It is not that difficult to modify the older machines, I have excellent sounding V-Vl, K and 201's on location, but as-designed they would not be considered listenable in today's context.

Your concern about LSI chips is well-founded. While such chips in amplifier sections can easily be subbed with a little modification, the selection systems are another matter. I had several Rowe/AMI R90-92 on location in the early 1990's. At that point I was replacing them with CD machines, or leaving the locations I didn't consider worth the expense of upgrading. Around that time someone from the Rowe dist over in NJ told me that they had been instructed to destroy all the proprietary logic chips from models outside the required 5 year warranty period.

The later Rowe machines are the best sounding I'd ever heard -far better that the early Cd-100's I'd replaced them with and I planned on keeping some for myself. After hearing about Rowe's policy I sold all the LSI based machines to the rec-room market.

Computer based machines are extremely reliable, you may never have a problem, some chips can be copied (programmed with a specialized machine) but in general you are stuck looking for whole boards if a failure occurs.

All that said, if you want the best possible sound without having to mod the machine; look at the 1980s era. At this point in time Rowe was dominant here in No. America and frankly, the best made machines. In spite of their policies, it is likely easier to obtain parts cheaply due to these facts.

Rob/NYC

Thanks for the advice guys,

I appreciate what you say about the 80s models, but stylistically they wouldn't really fit what I plan to play in them. So I'm looking at late 60s or 70s depending on the looks. I really like the look of the rockola 440 and seems affordable, I'd need to demo it to hear the sound quality though

I hear what you're saying doghouse. I do have someone in my town who repairs and restores them, but I feel I've bugged him enough for now without buying a machine from him! I'm actually building a bar in in my garden (from a shed) for pretty much the same reasons as you, so I can relate. My other half clearly only wants me to have one jukebox in there, but we shall see! Wall box machines and iPods is a nice idea, and an avenue I may explore but I just love my 45s!

Hi Adam,
As you can see by the above responses--this is a very "subjective" question.
Most people considering this purchase, seem to go for "cabinet design" first, as they need something that will "fit in" (read that as "spouse approval" ?)--As for "sound quality", IMHO, no brand had better sound then the last Seeburg's ( from the USC models on up). As for "reliability", once again, Seeburgs seem to run forever, unless "hands" get in there, and mess things up--I will admit that the SMC series Seeburgs, are not real good here. The "microprocessor" design was poor--BUT--I, along with a couple of others, have solved that problem, with a total replacement MCU, that I build and sell, which, once again, my opinion, makes the SMC's, the absolute best 45 rpm jukebox ever ! --The USC-SPS-STD, "MicroLog" models use LSI's, which have proven to be more reliable, then I ever thought they would be--( I was deeply involved with the design/testing of them, and was told by the head project engineer, that the "projected life" of the LSI {in those years}, was only 14 years long. In his opinion, case design was the reason. He assumed that the case would begin to leak air in that time.
Study your options carefully--heed "Doghouse's" warning as posted above--prepare to get what you pay for--buying on eBay is "risky", as half of the sellers do not know what they are talking about--and the other half are "lairs"
Ron Rich

Doghouse,
My all time favorite comment, which shows up less often now is--
"All original--never used in a bar (pub), or any other public place"--Plus, then you have all of the "rare" items--and then there's the "complete" items--that a blind man could see it's missing parts--- Ron Rich

It does indeed appear a risky business on eBay, plus most won't transport or transport correctly it seems.

The local guy seems very knowledgable, and provides a warranty with all the jukes he sells, so I'm gonna stick with him on my first purchase. He seems mostly to have rockola, ami or wurlitzers, though I'm sure he'd get seeburgs too. I'll keep an open mind for now anyway, and when my pub is built I'll try a few out first before handing over cash

Thanks for the help guys, I love my old bush srp-31c record changer, but really want a jukebox for those 45s now!!
It being mono and valve based from 62 it sounds great for older records, but not so great for newer 45s.

IMHO, you are making a wise choice, by going with you local man !
To be honest--most "stereo" jukebox installations, were not done in "stereo", if additional speakers were required. This was because, if the room was large, people on either side would only here one channel--sounded "funny", sometimes-- Ron Rich

DoghouseRiley wrote:If you're going to put one in a pub, then you need to consider the possibility of it being "fed beer."
In my experience, some punters aren't as considerate of other people's property these days.
I'd suggest a model where it's impossible to put a glass down on it, but it will limit your choices.

One of the reasons why wall boxes and "hideaways" were popular, but they did not provide the same "ambiance." Though I've seen a video of a bar in New York? where a wall boxes/adapter iPod system had been installed.

"Dog" wallboxes were mainly for installations where space was important and/or where fixed seating existed.

I know in Europe these were a rarity but in No.America once Joe Hole sat his ample backside down if the selection of music wasn't at-hand there was slim chance they'd get up to find it.

Essentially, the best locations are in small bars where people don't sit down but rather circulate and can access the machine if interested. If the location has predominately fixed seating wallboxes are indicated. The retro locations that I have often want both and in the past I'd give them a floor model even if it was really just a glorified hideaway and most action was from the wallboxes.

At this point with no current music on 45 and frankly, lousy collections, I'd only consider using inexpensive and trouble-free wallboxes such as the Rowe WR-A-B-C series that I bought for $5 ea and can be run from a card reader or similar device.

Rob

Does anyone have any views on the Rockola 470 or the earlier 451? They seem like good value and will play small hole records - a real bonus if you're in the uk as our singles were always released this way

The 60s and 70s Rockola that play both small-hole and large-hole records do so at different speeds. The large-holes play at 45RPM and the small-hole records trigger a mechanical assembly to reduce turntable speed to 33 1/3 RPM. You can find discussions on this forum on how to disable the speed change if you're interested. Regarding spills into jukeboxes, take a look at the Rockola 490-494-496 series. No place on those to set down a drink or anything else! But they don't have the combo turntable apparatus.
Patrick