Phonoland

I just ordered the manual for this jukebox, but my kids are dying to listen to music and I'm hoping this is very easy as I'm a complete novice.

Purchased the 470 and when a song is selected, everything works perfectly but when the needle hits the record it just "skates" across and no sound. So I went to the Needle Doctor to pick up a new needle and was excited to try it out. The new needle on a new record plays a little bit but also skips through the song pretty fast...and the sound is terrible!

I adjusted the weight to be on the 4th notch which should represent 4 grams. Other than that, I have no idea where to go or what to test and verify until I get my manual in the mail.

Thank you for any help!
Chris

Chris, the arms are poor on the R-O's. Check that the new styli cantilever isn't collapsing from too much weight. If too heavy the styli will be pushed into the plastic shroud and the arm will ride that instead if the needle.

Also, check that the arm is actually being lowered all the way onto the record. Remove a record and lower the arm onto where a record should be (power off to prevent damaging the stylus) the needle should be just slightly lower than the turntable outer ridge.

Rob/NYC

Chris,
I would do as Rob wrote, plus--
Go to www.needles4jukeboxes and see if you have the correct needle--he has lotza photo's--
If correct, be sure it is inserted correctly into the cart.
Oil the tonearm shaft with 20 wt. ND Oil--
Make sure the tone arm wires are not "binding, somewhere"--
Use a gram gauge to determine where it is set ( springs somehow, tend to "stretch themselves", so I' tolt ! )
Ron Rich

Thank both of you gentlemen for your quick reply. My son has been anxious all day to get the jukebox running .

I think you are exactly correct about the height of the needle. When I first played a record I was surprised how the plastic shroud was essentially touching the record. And now after your advice I can see that the needle is essentially getting crushed!

So now to figure out if my new needle has been bent causing it to be junk. And then to figure out how to adjust the height.

You can imagine the disappoint when I played the first record that my kids have ever heard and it was like WAH WAH WAH...NOTHING BUT A HOUND DOG...WAH WAH WAH.

Thanks again gentlemen!
Chris

Chris the problem you have is tracking weight -not height.

Under the tonearm there is a spring connected at one end to a hook on the post that supports the arm. At the other end is a clip that can be moved to several "steps" to adjust the tracking weight. The closer the clip is to the pickup -the lighter the weight.

As i mentioned, those arms are poor for tracking due to being inherently unbalanced.

Take a look at this topic: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6578

Also do a search for: "rock ola arm tracking weight " -you'll see how common this problem is.

I replaced that spring on all R-O and AMI machines with a counterweight.: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=12

Rob-NYC

Son and I made some progress before I saw your reply. We were messing with both the height and weight and made some progress where it doesn't skip (as much) and the sound is now a 2 out of a scale of 10.

I will definetly research the link you sent and invest in the counter weight.

Still nervous the new needle is whacked as it seems a little pushed in, but I'll wait to buy another one until I make the modifications.

Thanks again for now,
Chris

Chris,
If the shank supporting the needle itself is "pushed in"--yep--it is "whacked", and should be replaced, after you use a gram gauge, to properly set it--You are probably "whacking" your records, at the moment --- Ron Rich

You are guys are good!

The arm was way too low, crushing the needle....the weight was too heavy, crushing the needle...and the needle did get whacked.

So I picked up my second needle in 3 days and it's an authentic Shure that's a perfect match and as my 8 year old son said as Hound Dog was playing beautifully "now that is a Jukebox!"

So I will still make some tweaks based on all the great advice, but I now have a working Rockola 470! A few more hours of cleaning and it will be perfect for the home arcade I'm making for the kids. Wife, kids and I spent about 3 hours searching through 45s and we have 80 records ready to load. A store up here got about 10,000 records a few years back with all the jukebox labels, so it looks great having all printed titles

Thank you gentlemen!
Chris

Chris, I suggest washing all records before putting in the machine. Dust, or ground up record surface acts as sandpaper and accelerates stylus wear, which in-turn wears the records.

For average dirt some dish-washing liquid is sufficient. For heavy coatings I use diluted floor stripper.

Rob-NYC

As per my thread linked by Rob, you may find that even with the spring at its lowest the arm is exerting too much weight. My stylus pressure gauge read some 6.5g on the lightest setting, probably due to the spring wearing out. The counterweight mod is fairly easy to do and will result in a balanced arm, and you will be able to apply the correct weight as per the original specs (or lower if you can find the correct cart / stylus). Stylus pressure gauges can be had for as little as £18 on eBay - dont be fooled and spend large sums, theyre all basically the same!

Good luck

Psychman wrote: The counterweight mod is fairly easy to do and will result in a balanced arm, and you will be able to apply the correct weight as per the original specs (or lower if you can find the correct cart / stylus). Stylus pressure gauges can be had for as little as £18 on eBay - dont be fooled and spend large sums, theyre all basically the same!

Good luck

Thank you for your advice as I did buy a gauge yesterday for cheaper as I think the recommendation was less than 2 grams for the stylus I bought. So will test that today and start working on the counterbalance.

Rob-NYC wrote:Chris, I suggest washing all records before putting in the machine. Dust, or ground up record surface acts as sandpaper and accelerates stylus wear, which in-turn wears the records.
Rob-NYC

I have all the records ready to load so will take your advice and clean those babies up first. Plus need to pick up some of that oil to lubricator the arm. Hopefully my manual will come today so I can make all the proper adjustments and disassemble things correctly.

Thanks again everyone,
Chris

Chris,
Couple of things--Glad it's playing--
GOOD quality springs don't get "weaker" without "human help"--and if "weaker" it would put less pressure on the needle-??
I strongly advise you that "if working do not fix ( or "adjust") it". No adjustments on that phono will "change", without "help" !
DO oil it before you play it much more , with the proper 20 wt. N/d oil !
Also, IMHO, the is no good substitute for the genuine Shure needle--all aftermarkets I have ever seen are poor in one, or more respects--Ron Rich

If your stylus says it needs 2g of tracking force you will NOT achieve that without modification. As far as Rockola state, the minimum force the arm can apply is 3g, and thats assuming yours isnt knackered like mine was. You may find the stylus can track within a range of weight however

Is this the original Shure M44 series cartridge? Can I ask what model of stylus you got and where you got it?

Psychman wrote:Is this the original Shure M44 series cartridge? Can I ask what model of stylus you got and where you got it?

The Needle Doctor is actually local to me so I headed up there and talked to them. The needle they gave me was "A Product of SHURE BROS."

It says in bold on the label: N655-ed
Then below that which was a little smaller print : N55-E

A maroon colored box.

Hope that helps,
Chris