Phonoland

http://www.jitterbuzz.com/jukeboxes_com ... html#newyo

So far I've only read the section dealing with jukes and the mafia. The fact that these creatures were allowed to not only exist -but flourish and dominate many areas of commerce speaks volumes about police and politicians in this country.

Rob

Rob,
Thank You for such an interesting link! It will take a while to read all of that.
Seeburg V that you and Ron helped so much with is still going! Thank You Rob and Ron!
David

Oh my good.
these articles are incredible!
Thank you for sharing them.

Guys,
They are good reading--but--may not be 100 % true--found some things that do not reconcile with what I was told, at one time or another ?
Perhaps what I was told, was in error--don't know what to believe at this point--?? (Yep, I heard that too--"THEY can't put anything on the internet, what ain't true !!!") Ron Rich

Ron,and all, I haven't read much beyond the mob essay. That one pretty much confirms (or perpetuates) what I had been told back in the early 1970's concerning Wurlitzer's alliance with that POS Lansky. Whenever this came up, I'd point out that there was virtually NO Wurlitzer product on the street here in NYC in the 1960's or '70s. Out of well over 100 locations I'd visited both with parents and later as a teen, I found only two Wurlitzer's: A 3000 with defective keyboard in a pizzeria and a 3100 in a bar restaurant called Pippens. Both were sighted in summer and fall of 1970 -thru '72 era. The only other place I saw carousel Wurlitzers was in Mike Munves show room in late 1969. Who knows, maybe that earlier association poisoned the well for them.

Another odd point was the author's closing remark: "Rock-Ola overcame hostility and ruthless competition by a combination of technological know-how and up-to-date design that made the company a success."

R-O was better-known for copying the design and styling of the other three manufacturers -often right to the edge of patent "infringement". As far a I can see, their only real innovation was the rather elegant response to Seeburg's "100" with a 120 that was smaller (30" wide) and later reworked to 200 selections. The mech action was fairly crude along with poor quality DC motors and goring tonearms, but their mid-late fifties styling was definitely up there with the best of the other three.

I'm sure to find other stuff to bark about...but I'll leave that to other readers.

Rob

Hi Rob.
I spoke to Mr. David C. Rockola about the "copying"---he had an answer--he said it was NOT "copying, but sharing". He also noted that he and "old JP" were "friends"-- ( he also, at that time made a claim about engineers--saying they cost too much, and that he and Seeburg also shared them--to "save money"---)( He seemed to have eye problems that day as while speaking with me, he was continually winking one eye, or the other). Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Rob.
I spoke to Mr. David C. Rockola about the "copying"---he had an answer--he said it was NOT "copying, but sharing". ...... Ron Rich

OK, Ron, I know you are "pulling my leg" -as my Illinois grandmother would say.

But there is some truth to it. R-O was obviously "influenced" by Seeburg's cabinet designs of the C and R -although RockOla's 'fat" pilasters might have predated Seeburg by a year or-so.

RoclOla obviously copied AMI's gripper concept --but AMI then seemed to copy R-O's Ferris wheel beginning with their G-200 and beyond.

I'm tempted to say that Seeburg got the idea of a title drum from R-O but Wurlitzer had a version in their 1100. Beyond that I don't think Wurlitzer had any influence as far as mech or electronics.

When looking at the amount of "sharing" of designs it is kind of remarkable that there weren't lawsuits flying in all directions.

The only real conflicts I am aware of were Seeburg demanding NSM stop copying (so closely) their Tormat electrics, and the IHF (Institute of High Fidelity) demanding that AMI stop using their Lyre symbol on their ads.

Rob

Hi Rob,
I am sure he was "pulling my leg" somewhat--but that's as near to what he told me as I can recall--I do recall speaking to him about the design of the "scan control assembly", and I recall he would not say if he, or Seeburg had it first -- I believe that's when he stated that they "shared engineers"--
As for NSM/Seeburg law suit, I may be incorrect here, but I am under the impression that NSM started out life "assembling" Seeburgs. At some point in time ( around the LPC-480 model), NSM went out on their own with their "own design"--which was with-out a Tormat. IMHO they then made a foolish move, in attempting to incorporate a Tormat into their phono. Seeburg, at that time was probably generating more revenue from lawsuits then anything else ! Ron Rich