Phonoland

Hi everyone,

I am helping a buddy of mine restore a 1961 Motorola console he bought at an estate sale for $20. It sounds great and looks fantastic, but it has an unusual problem...the trip mechanism on the record changer will not play a record all the way through! What happens is that on 78 speed, it will play about 5/6 of the way through a 78, then the arm will suddenly pick up and the changer cycles. (In other words, the trip mechanism activates before the needle reaches the lead-out grooves.)

45s and LPs are not nearly as affected by this (unless they are out-of-round) because of the larger label and lead-out area when compared to 78s. However, everything else on the changer works fine and once this issue is fixed it should be fine for many years to come. I originally thought there was possibly some hardened grease or oil on the trip finger preventing the arm from moving further, but when I move the arm all the way to the spindle there is no extra resistance anywhere in its travel path. Could there be a limit screw set too tight? And when I removed the changer to investigate, it is obvious that it had been cleaned and re-greased recently so is it possible that the trip mechanisms on these changers wear out with frequent use?? It seems like there are so many possibilities as to what could be causing this, and it's so frustrating because everything else on it works fine!

I hope someone here can tell me what I should do to fix this...take care and have a Happy 4th!

Sounds as if it's time for me to repeat what an old Radio ("I don't fix TV's !") guy told me when I was a boy-"son, don't go afixin on anything before you have read the service manual-at least twice". This problem appears to me, to be caused by someone who did NOT follow the above advice--Ron Rich

Ron, I was fortunate enough to find a service manual for the VM 30RC series on eBay, and when it arrives this week I will read through it and see if it discusses this issue. Even if it doesn't, it's a good thing to have for extra reference since I have a Motorola portable from 1959 that uses the same - or at least a very similar - changer. From the condition of the changer it does seem likely that someone who did not know what s/he was doing attempted to adjust or otherwise manipulate the trip mechanism when s/he cleaned and re-greased the motor (which, outside of the trip mechanism, was actually done rather thoroughly).

And if worst comes to worst and the trip mechanism can't be fixed, there is a great company in Minneapolis called Vintage Music that has replacement parts for just about every record changer imaginable and they can take a look at it.

But I would hate to think that this issue isn't a simple fix...the unit sounds great, the cabinet is in simply gorgeous shape, and I want to give this unit a second shot at life as soon as possible!

Someday, folks will wise up and start hitting up knowledgeable service techs like me to do proper repairs on things - instead of being cheap and DIY messing up.
It's what was the smart thing to do in the past...... but obviously isn't thought of anymore.

A little knowledge:

The trip friction clutch is located on the change cycle drive gear. The purpose of the clutch is to let the arm play the complete record before tripping the cycle, no matter how long the record is. A projection on the turntable hub pushes the clutch lever back a bit each rotation of the turntable, as long as the record is playing. When the record finishes, the rapid motion into the lead-out groove pushes the clutch lever out far enough to start the cycle instead.

What can go wrong:

1. Gunk in the friction clutch can cause either early tripping, or failure to trip. The parts are not supposed to have any lube on them. If the gunk is sticky, the changer trips the first time the hub projection tries to push the clutch lever back. If the gunk is slippery, the clutch lever never moves toward the hub projection. If the gunk sticks the trip parts to the cycle gear, the pickup repeats grooves.

2. The trip parts on the drive gear might be damaged or assembled incorrectly.

3. Foreign matter in the trip parts can cause the clutch to jam.

4. If the trip slide is bent, tripping can occur too soon. Trying to keep the knob from turning off during automatic shutoff can bend the trip slide.

5. If the turntable hub projection is worn or damaged, it can cause erratic tripping.

Whatever the reason for the malfunctioning trip mechanism, it's impossible to actually diagnose online.
The only sure way to rectify the problem is to incur the services of an experienced tech who's familier with the VM mechanisms.
Any bent, binding, or damaged mechanism problems will be addressed and corrected.
There's simply too many crucial points that interact in changers to guess at.
A novice cannot tell if the trip slide is bent, or by how much, in order to straighten/replace it.
Nor can the average person determine if any parts are missing or incorrectly intalled.

Hey everyone,

This issue has been solved! I looked at the manual and there was an entire page devoted to this issue. Upon removing the change mechanism, I found that the trip pawl lever was not only worn, but it had been SUPERGLUED into place (evidently it fell out at one point and the previous owner decided to just glue it back in rather than obtain a new one)! The pawl lever had become very loose and free to move around whenever the arm moved far enough inwards that the trip mechanism would engage, and that's what was mainly causing the early tripping issue. The wear on it certainly didn't help, either...

Anyway, I bought the mechanism down to Vintage Music and they were able to get me the correct trip pawl lever and install it for me. I put the mechanism back in the player and it plays every record with tripping grooves perfectly now! The new trip pawl lever is tight and can only move when the arm enters the trip grooves, just as it should be. Thanks a lot for everyone's input on this issue and I'm glad my buddy can finally listen to this great unit!

Oh, and if anyone who owns a VM 30RC series changer wants a copy of the instruction manual, let me know and I can send you a digital copy of it.

MusicMan93 wrote:Hey everyone,

This issue has been solved! I looked at the manual and there was an entire page devoted to this issue. Upon removing the change mechanism, I found that the trip pawl lever was not only worn, but it had been SUPERGLUED into place.....

Anyway, I bought the mechanism down to Vintage Music and they were able to get me the correct trip pawl lever and install it for me........

The new trip pawl lever is tight and can only move when the arm enters the trip grooves,....

This is exactly the reason for my previous post - unusal circumstances caused by previous tinkering.
It's impossible for even ME to diagnose such things (superglue?) without it being on my repair bench.
And I have worked on hundreds of VM changers.

As for the trip paul being "tight" - I don't understand that situation - unless "tight" means the "C" clip retainer is replaced and holding the mechanism in place - the pawl assembly itself should freely rotate on the cycle gear if it is nudged by the trip link.

Hello, I have rebuilt plenty of vm tt, under the turntable you will see a aluminum bar. it's called the trip link. there are 2 tabs on the end that you can see from the side of the tt. there are 2 tabs 1 curved up and one curved down. the one that is curved up and at the very end of the trip link is where the tonearm trip finger comes in contact with the tonearm, take 2 small plyers hold one of the plyers as close as u can to the tab that is facing up & use the other plyer to VERY gently bend the tab back just a little. be careful and very gentle because of the trip ling being so light u could break it, so take ur time and do a little at a time.....each time u bend it back, put a record on and see where it trips. do not oil this trip link, if there is any oil on any area that the trip link travels on clean it off. the trip link is slighty bent. and should move freely. vm tt were made also be played in a manual position. by letting the changer cycle to the off position on it;'s own. then turn it back on it will become a manual player. in that manual mode it does not contact any of the changing parts, u have to lift and take the tone arm off the record by hand. I would post a pic......not sure how to do it on here....if there is anything else drop me a line...
Hope this was some help.
Charles

1958zenith wrote:Hello, I have rebuilt plenty of vm tt, under the turntable you will see a aluminum bar. it's called the trip link. there are 2 tabs on the end that you can see from the side of the tt. there are 2 tabs 1 curved up and one curved down. the one that is curved up and at the very end of the trip link is where the tonearm trip finger comes in contact with the tonearm, take 2 small plyers hold one of the plyers as close as u can to the tab that is facing up & use the other plyer to VERY gently bend the tab back just a little. be careful and very gentle because of the trip ling being so light u could break it, so take ur time and do a little at a time.....each time u bend it back, put a record on and see where it trips. do not oil this trip link, if there is any oil on any area that the trip link travels on clean it off. the trip link is slighty bent. and should move freely. vm tt were made also be played in a manual position. by letting the changer cycle to the off position on it;'s own. then turn it back on it will become a manual player. in that manual mode it does not contact any of the changing parts, u have to lift and take the tone arm off the record by hand. I would post a pic......not sure how to do it on here....if there is anything else drop me a line...
Hope this was some help.
Charles

Charles, as a long-time experienced tech, I don't really agree with your post.
The reason being, and which has been mentioned by me and others on here, it creates just more problems and confusion - in the end resulting in a piece of slop ready for the garbage.
Bending trip linkages is NOT for some DIY'er - these assemblies are too critical to the operation of the record changer.
So no, I don't recommend such "bending" "twisting" or doodling with mechanicals.
It's just inviting more trouble.

Further, this "bending" of the (delicate aluminum) trip linkage is not the proper way to service these changers - I've never had to do such amateurish stuff to them to get them to work properly. (unless of course some nitwit went about monkeying where they don't belong)
There IS a professional and proper way to service and adjust the trip-point, and it isn't "bending" anything.

Matt,
Gotta agree with you here--"bending" is only the VERY last resort, in any repair. In most cases,of this type, I would attempt to find another sample machine, and see what the difference is first. I find that if "bending " is needed, it is caused mostly because some "twit" has bent it (wrong!) previously. Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Matt,
Gotta agree with you here--"bending" is only the VERY last resort, in any repair. In most cases,of this type, I would attempt to find another sample machine, and see what the difference is first. I find that if "bending " is needed, it is caused mostly because some "twit" has bent it (wrong!) previously. Ron Rich

Thanks Ron.
As I always state, and will continue to do so.... there is a right and a wrong way to do things.
I just don't condone "backyard mechanics" way of repairing stuff.

Matt,
Guess you were never in "the Army", or worked for, or dealt with, a govt. agency--let me learn you something here--Yungon-
There are THREE ways of doing everything--the right way, the wrong way, and the way the govt. wants it done !
Ron Rich

after reading what I wrote, I should have said to check the tabs on the end of the trip link, to make sure they are not bent, if you have a photofact you can see how they should look. I only say this because i had the same problem with a motorola turntable. the gear assembly had frozen, (dried lube and dirt) the previous owner tried to force the tonearm to engage, the tonearm could not be placed back on the rest post. long story short after taking the tt apart i found out that the trip link ends were bent. once cleaned and readjusted it worked fine.