Seeburg C Trip Switch Pressure

Hi,

I'm experiencing (minor) problems with my Seeburg C.

At the start of a record the tone arm skates accross the record for a short distance. The tone arm is set at about 4-5 grams.

I believe the trip switch spring is the problem as I need to set it too strong to make the switch work.

I need to set the trip switch spring at about 8 grams for it to work (the manual says 1-2 grams), any less pressure on the spring and the wire lever will not pull down sufficiently to activate the switch. I need to shorten the spring by about 1/4 inch to achieve this pressure. The adjusting lever on the trip switch is set at the maximum.

I have replaced the switch with a new one (including a new wire arm on top), and a new spring. This did not change anything.

I have read and re-read the manual, however, I am at a loss.

I have a Pickering 345-03d cartridge installed and have added additional weight to the tone arm.

I am not able to 'balance' the tone arm with the trip switch spring installed. It will 'balance' if I remove the spring.

Is there something that I am missing?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Regards

Gordon.

Is there something that I am missing?

Forgive me, but, boy is that an understatement.

The trip switch gets reset when the arm/cradle is returned to the rest position.

--The whisker gently snaps into a position so that is no longer loads the the rectangle that reset it.--

If you have greatly increased the biasing spring you have overcome the gentle snap action which keeps the whisker off the actuator rectangle till the record nears it's end spiral.

Again, after reset the whisker should not touch the rectangle again till the stylus nears-enters the spiral.

I'll have to find a cradle assembly to see what might be going on here, but something is way out of whack and you need to start by examining the way this assembly works.

This is one of those adjustments that requires care but never needs a revisit once set up properly.

Rob/NYC

Gordo,
Sounds to me like you have the wrong switch installed. The ones Seeburg used were "special" with a very light trigger. I have seen some of the "aftermarket" supplied switches--I have never been able to make them work--
You will need to find a good used one and a new spring--( I do have the correct, replacement springs for sale).
Ron Rich

Hi Rob and Ron,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I have replaced the switch, trip wire (above switch) and spring from one of the sellers listed above. No improvement.

I'm a bit lost as there is only the one adjustment available for the spring length. If I reduce the spring length, the 'wire' does not pull hard enough to activate the trip switch.

I have tried to attach a photo below (not sure if this will work).

Thanks

Gordon.

Gordo, I have an NOS trip sw here.

The spec's are: 245816 With a 3-68 date. Cemco. Pat# 3248496

With actuator facing upward lowering a stack of 5 U.S. quarters should easily compress the silver actuator. 4 Quarters will just barely actuate it. The silver actuator should be in the center of the bottom quarter.

This is an easy test with readily available items. If your switch requires more force than 5 quarters it is either faulty or the wrong spec -as Ron pointed out.

Check also that the nylon actuator has hinge "pips" on both sides and is free to move with only a slight snap action that detents it in the rest position.

That situation you are dealing with is bizarre. Normally those switches are hair-trigger and it is only necessary to set the biasing adjustment at around midway.

Rob/NYC

Gordo,Rob,
"That" switch was made by three different suppliers, and in about 5 different versions. I have never checked the part numbers, they may have all had the same, or different numbers, and of course the code date will differ. All "Seeburg versions" will have only two solder lugs and a METAL switch actuator. Ron Rich

Hi Ron and Rob,

Thanks for the tip about the 5 coins.

I tried it and 5 coins depress the actuator (I used Aussie 10 cent coins as they are the same weight as US quarters).

So, I assume this means the switch is fine. I removed the nylon actuator (which is brand new) and ensured the 'pips' were fine. All OK. I even installed the old original (and broken) spring, but no better.

The switch works freely, but still requires about 8 grams to depress the actuator when all is installed. All I can think of is the bracket holding the nylon actuator is bent or out of line or the spring is pulling at the wrong angle. I'm stumped. I keep thinking that I am missing something.

If I remove the spring, it works really well and the tone arm does not skate at the start of the record, but (of course) the record never ends.

I guess I will have to 'live with it'.

Thanks anyway

Gordon..

Gordon, I tested the trip sw that I mentioned using a Neuses gage and it was well off the 10 gram scale.

This leads me to believe that your switch is also probably Ok and there may be something else rather obvious that we are missing.

The spring that you are using looks like it may be a tonearm spring. If so, it will be a lot weaker than the original one for that assembly.

On the rectangle that resets the whisker the top-most section is adjustable so that once the whisker is reset and snaps onto it's rest position it no longer contacts the whisker and thus no longer loads the arm assembly. If things are working properly it should be possible to widen the gap upwards to achieve this condition.

Unfortunately, I have not found any of those old arm assemblies here to examine, but I suspect this is a very simple matter centering around the wrong spring and/or adjustments.

Rob

Hi Gordon,
I failed to see the photo before--that's absolutely a spring problem, or the wrong spring.
It also appears to be "touching" the switch, which it should not--has someone attempted to bend the trip wire, or is this because of the way it is sitting on the wire ? (One should never attempt to "bend" this wire--it's "case hardened", but can be bent--very carefully--never needed, unless someone has done so previously).
This spring, as with ALL springs used by Seeburg, never need to be lengthened, nor shortened, as that one is--doing so changes the overall tension factor, making it impossible to adjust it correctly.
PM me, if you wish, as I have the correct (new) spring(s) in stock. Ron Rich

Hi Ron,

I appreciate your reply.

No, the 'wire' is brand new and has not been bent. The attached photo is of the old 'wire'.

The new 'wire' extends back a bit further and does not allow the spring to touch the switch.

The bracket that holds the 'wire' does not have any adjustment so no room to move there, I did however bend it away (a very little bit), from the housing to provide a little extra room for the nylon actuator to have a little more space to pivot as it was a bit tight.

I have sent a PM.

Thanks

Gordon.

Gordon, here is a short vid to show the proper operation of the trip sw:

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g6 ... 74a7f04dfe -WMV format.

I finally found an assembly, dusty but operating properly. You can see from the action that the whisker should lightly snap from rest to trip, but not follow the arm assembly till engaged by the low end of the actuator frame.

BTW: it does appear that the whisker on yours is bent upwards.

Rob

Rob,
That's an excellent demo of how it should function !
Ron Rich

Gracia, you are easily entertained .

Rob

Hi Rob and Ron,

Rob, your video showed me the problem! Thanks for posting it.

The juke now works without any skating.

My juke was set so that the trip switch was activated by 'pulling' the wire activator (by the spring) to activate the trip switch.

Your video shows that the tone arm actually 'pushes' the wire actuator to work the trip switch.

I reset it to match the video and it works just fine.

I don't know the purpose of the trip switch spring or the trip lever actuator adjustment (page 2162 of my manual), but, it works fine so I'm not concerned.

I have now been able to 'balance' the tone arm and adjust the weight correctly.

Thanks so much for taking the time and interest to respond, I would have been searching for ever to resolve this problem.

This just about completes my juke rebuild, so hopefully no more questions (for a while at least).

Next job will be to get the wallbox working.

Kind Regards

Gordon.

Hi Gordon,
The "purpose" of the counter balance spring, on the trip switch, is to assure that the needle is not biased "backward", against the record as the trip switch begins to exert pressure on the tone arm. If not properly set, it will ruin the last portion of all records. See page 2160 of you Service Manual.
Ron Rich