Seeburg 3WA-200

Eratic behavior of WOM. Some times selection keys will not stay latched in so you can make a selection. If you manually hold a letter key in and then push a number key in it will make the selection. Some times it sends more than one pulse and selcts more than one record, (Apparently there is some way to set the WOM on free play, as I have not had to deposit any coins to obtain a credit) On other occasions it sticks in the selection mode and makes ramdon selectios one after another until you shut the WOM off?

Any ideas about the cause and remedy of this strange behavior will be appreciated.

Thank you
Darrell

Well, you sure picked a "fun" wallbox to learn about.

I have 93 of the "200's on location and they can be made reliable.

Whenever I got a box for future use I partially dissembled it and washed the components in diluted floor stripper and reasonably hot water. Blow dry and let dry further for at least a day. You don't have to do this for home use, but it eliminated some problems, makes soldering easier and the box is more pleasant to work on.

To start off you didn't specify whether you have the dual pricing unit or the non-accumulator type. The dual's have a separate credit unit behind the pages with a circular white nylon gear.

That is the type I use. to start off you need to make sure that the leaf switches just behind the contact wafer are set up correctly and are making-breaking at the right times. You can study this by manually rotating the wiper blade (clockwise only) on the contact wafer.

There are a lot of other things that can cause the symptoms you are seeing, so first determine what box you have.

Rob/NYC

Rob

I see a silver plate that reads: "Dual Credit Unit Type DCU10 - L6. I do not see a circular white nylon gear you mention.

So I guess it is the non-accumulator type dut to lack of white nylon gear?

Thanks
Darrell

The Dual credit is the types I use and does accumulate.

The white gear is partially obscured by a set of wire on a phenolic plate on the lower front of the C-U.

Now look at the lower right hand of the chassis behind the cash box and see what model number is there. It will read V-3Wa or similar.

I'll dig out the schematics and scan/post them.

Rob/NYC

It reads V-3WA. Thanks Rob.

I have an on/off toggle switch between the WOM & the phono. At the present time everytime i toggle the wall box on the wiper arm spins and selects random songs until I toggle the WOM off?

Darrell

Darrell,
You have a set of contacts mal-adjusted You will need to get out the books, find the correct version schematic/ contact point drawings, and set them to spec. I don't have a book handy, but I believe the contacts are called out as (motor) carry-over, or credit start switches. Ron Rich

Morning Ron

I have a service & parts manual that has the S-3WA, D-3WA and HD3WA, but not the V-3WA.

The D-3WA looks like mine, ut not sure if schematics and adjustments would be the same?

Thanks
Darrell

Darrel, that sort of runaway is caused be the leaf switches just behind the signal wafer (wiper arm on the rivets) being out of adjustment.

Take a look at the second pic that I ul'ed here:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa337/Rob-NYC/

The contacts of interest here is the "carryover switch" depicted on the upper right side of the drawing.

With power off set the wiper to the credited position. Turn it manually clockwise just past the 12:00 position and it will click into a point where the buttons will latch when pressed in. At this point the contact that is in the center of three on that carryover sw must -not- touch either of the two to it's sides but must contact the innermost one when you start to turn the wiper arm clockwise.

There is one other remote possibility that can cause a similar problem but that is rare and unlikely here.

Rob/NYC

Darrell,
Prior to adjusting any switches--be sure that you oil the motor--especially both "sides" of the armature shaft, with ONLY 20 wt. ND oil. All Seeburg wallboxes will exhibit similar problems, if the clutch is "hanging-up" Ron Rich

Ron & Rob

Oiled motor as advised.

With power off I set the wiper to the credited position. Turning wiper manually clockwise just past the 12:00 position until it clicked into a point where the buttons would latch when pressed in. At this point none of the contacts were touching including the contact that is in the center of three on the carryover switch. However when I then started to turn the wiper clockwise I could not see any contact made with the innermost one(I assume this is the one farthest towards the back of the WOM), or any other contacts making contact?

By the way Rob, if you don't mind my asking what model of phono do you have your 93 3WA-200 WOM's hooked up to?

Thanks for all the help & psoting the schematic
Darrell

Darell, sometimes it is hard to actually see the actual status of those leaf switches. Try inserting a piece of paper or card stock between all of those in that vertical stack and apply power.

If the box has credits but no buttons are pressed the motor should not take off. Check the positions of the solder wires and be sure they are not touching each other.

Next, remove the two plates above and below the keyboards and examine the treadle switches. These are leaf switches tthat are activated when a letter or number button is pressed. They must be open at all other times.

For the retro Seeburg locations I use:
1-V
2-Vl
1-VL Hideaway
4-201's
1-K modded for later electronics.

Rob/NYC

Rob
I agree it is difficult to see the contacts. I used a title strip (90lb card stock) to determine that the contacts were in the open position. In the morning I will do the other things you listed.

If you are talking about a 1957 KS model, I have heard that the steppers are not reliable and you should not hook a WOM up to a KS? Can you explain what modifications you made and at what cost to be able to use a WOM with a model KS?

Thank you
Darrell

Each day is full of surprises. I placed a piece of title card stock between all of the contacts in the vertical stack and applied power. Nothing happened. I then removed the title strips and selected a song and once again it continued to make random selections until I shut it off.

Could not observe anysolder wires touching each other, however as Ron knows my eyesight is not the best .

I then removed the two plates above and below the keyboards and examine the treadle switches. The leaf switches tthat are activated when a letter or number button is pressed were open and only closed when song selections are made.

Now for the surprise! The WOM is set on 3 plays for a quarter. I have now placed 8 quarters and made 24 selections without any run away selections being made! I know of knothing that I have done other than oil the motor and continue cleaning and using the WOM to cause it to now work as intended?

I am kind of a tightwad, how can I get more plays for my quarter? I know how to do this with my 3W1 & 3W160 WOMs, but the V3WA-200 is different and I do not have a manual yet?

Thank you
Darrell

Hi Darrell,
I would almost bet that the oil solved your problem--it usually does !
The pricing unit in those WOM's was really not meant to be adjustable. Different units were offered, pre-set at different prices-
"Guys" "monkeyed" with them in order to change pricing--but I have never seen one that is reliable after the "mod(s)"---Ron Rich

Morning Ron

That was good advice you gave me about not making any adjustments until after I had oiled the motor.

Went through 25 quarters now and only had two runaways that both stopped on their own after the 3 credits were gone. Before it would jusy continue selecting random songs until I shut it off manually.

The WOM seems to get more reliable the more I use it.

Have a great weekend!

Thank you
Darrell