Phonoland

Here is what I have: Spear Products Model 220 phonograph. It's electric - in that the turntable is powered. It is selectable between 45 and 78 rpm. But it has an acoustic sound arm.

I am trying to figure out what type of needle to install. There is too much conflicting information on the internet. I'll include some photos. Clearly it takes a victrola-style needle held in with a thumb-screw. I found one similar to it on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Sfybs4oqM

I've seen "Spear" records mentioned in this forum in the context of these toy plastic records that probably play on this player. So my question is - can I play regular old 45 vinyls on this machine? And if so, what type of needle should I install? The YouTube one looks to have a straight steel needle. But is that the type I have to replace every time, and will it be too hard on 45's? One needle-seller recommended a bent-shank sapphire stylus, but didn't say why or answer any of these questions. I'm hoping someone here has more knowledge.

Thanks in advance for any information anyone has!

-Scott

Your right, the information provided about the different acoustic gramophones and proper needles can be confusing.

Basically, the Spear acoustic phonographs, such as the one you have, from the late 1950s/early 1960s, were designed to be children's phonographs. In the video, he's playing a typical child's 78 vinyl record. I'm not sure if he's using a steel needle or not, but it sounds horrible. Most likely the original soft rubber gaskets holding the sound box's (reproducer's) aluminum diaphragm in place have petrified and are rock hard. Also, the needle bar pivots are probably out of adjustment.

In any event, these phonographs were made to play monaural 78s and 45s--again those primarily made for children--probably using a special jewel tipped needle--or possibly osmium tipped--that would fit either the groove of a 78 rpm record or the MUCH NARROWER groove of a 45 rpm record. If you inserted a steel needle, even a relatively skinny "soft tone" steel needle, and tried to play a monaural 45 record, it would damage the groove.

(NOTE -- The Spear acoustic phonographs were NEVER designed to play stereo 45s, which require the stylus tip to move in all directions--back and forth and up and down, and not just laterally--or back and forth--as acoustic phonographs do.)

Along this line, the typical vinyl 45 rpm disc--monaural or stereo--was designed to be played only with a light weight (electrically amplified) tonearm fitted with a jewel stylus. If you were able to find a jewel tipped needle of the proper size to play a monaural 45 record, it probably would not hold up for too long. (These were always notoriously hard on the children's records, even when new.)

I'd say your best bet would be to play only shellac-based 78 rpm records--preferably those from before the mid-to-late 1930s. If it rattles or blasts, then the sound box is due for a re-build.

HTH
Joe

Thank you so much, that is more useful information than I have been able to find anywhere. It's not really what I wanted to hear...I want one of these "portable" players that I can play 45's on. I love the look of this one, and to be honest - sound quality is not my top priority. I'm ok with it sounding like AM radio - I find it kind of charming. But I also don't want to wreck the records I play on it.

It sounds like you would conclude that a sapphire stylus may work better for me than a steel, but that I will end up hurting the records overtime anyway - and that if I want to play stereo 45's I should get a player with an electromagnetic pick-up and amplifier.

You talked some about finding a jewel tip of the "proper size" and emphasized that 45 grooves are MUCH NARROWER. I don't understand the significance of that part of what you are talking about (you may be assuming I know more than I know). What would be the proper stylus size for the typical vinyl 45?

Thanks again, this was really helpful.

scott

Hi Scott,
The records produced in the USA ( Please, edit your info to show what country, at least, you are from !) changed groove size a few times since the 30's--originally "78's" were 3.0 mill in size--later 2, then 1 mill. "45's" started out at 1 mill and were reduced when stereo was introduced ( about 1957/8) to 0.7 mill. Ron Rich

Hi Ron/Scott:

This site provides a handy guide concerning the various groove sizes for a variety of formats, including cylinders and diamond discs, as well as 78s, LPs and 45s -- http://www.videointerchange.com/vintage_78s.htm
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Edison 80-RPM Diamond Discs -- 3.7 mil spherical or non-truncated conical stylus
Edison White Wax, Brown Wax, Concert, and Gold Molded -- 7.4 mil Spherical stylus.
Edison Blue Amberol Cylinders -- 3.7 to 4.2 mil non-truncated spherical stylus
Edison Wax Amberol Cylinders -- 4.2 mil spherical stylus.
Wide Groove Acoustical 78 RPM Lateral Discs -- 3.8 mil truncated elliptical stylus
Pre-1935 Lateral Cut Electrical 78's -- 3.3 mil truncated elliptical stylus.
1940's -+Transcription Recordings -- 2.3 mil truncated elliptical stylus.
Early LP's -- 1.5 mil truncated elliptical stylus
Modern Micro-groove LP's -- 0.7 mil elliptical stylus
Standard Groove 78 RPM Discs -- 3.0 mil truncated elliptical stylus
Narrow Groove 78's such as Polydor -- 2.4 mil truncated elliptical stylus.
Late 1930's Lateral 78 RPM Discs -- 2.8 mil truncated elliptical stylus
Aluminum Instantaneous discs -- 6.0 mil conical
1931 to 1935 RCA Pre-Grooved Home Recordings -- 5.0 mil spherical stylus
Pathe´ 78's -- 3.7 mil truncated conical stylus
Etched Label Pathe´ to 14 inches in diameter -- 8.0 mil conical
Etched Label Pathe´ over 14 inches in diameter -- 16 mil conical

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Joe

Thanks everyone...awesome info. I ended up with an osmium tipped stylus/needle (still don't know the difference in the nomenclature). I was going to take an expendable 45 and see if i played it 100 times what happened. But it turns out the turntable doesn't really turn at a very constant rate, so you get this speed-up/slow-down effect constantly. I don't think it's worth working on.

Does anyone have a recommendation for an older, small portable player that will play stereo 45s from the 50's and later? Sound quality isn't top priority, as far as tone. But I don't want warbly either.

Thanks,
Scott

I'd guess that probably the rubber (washer-like) ring on the motor's idler wheel is shot. You can see what they look like here -- http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/ ... urrets.asp

I'm sure everyone has their favorite, but as for a good quality small phonograph capable of playing all speeds, probably the most affordable would be a good condition Califone portable--preferably a later model from the 1990s/early 2000s. They still make these today, but I think they're manufactured in China now and the quality is not up to the old standards--or so I've heard.

You can check out the new model here -- http://salestores.com/califo03.html

Some of the older models are available from sites such as eBay -- http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=califone I believe that the Califone 1010AV was the last one made prior to the new design.

While these are monaural, they still produce a room filling sound, and are ideal for occasional listening.

HTH,
Joe

Well, this is my first post, or actually a reply The phonograph you have in the picture uses steel needles; permanent ones will do in a record as the sound box is much too heavy. Steel needles are designed to grind into the groove and fit the record being played; the record has shale, I think, to help out this process in the older ones. After playing the record, the needle should be removed and another one put back in its place. These were designed mainly for children and records were not generally meant to receive an optimum of care anyway and quality of sound was also not of the highest importance. Basically they were for children to enjoy but the sound box connected to a larger and acoustically more correct horn will do very well for what it is if it is still in decent shape without air leaks and with pliable gaskets but do not expect the best in record wear or fidelity. BTW, the first phono I ever played was one of these