Total Noob, looking for advice

I collect and restore Pinball machines and Coke machines. Thinking Jukes would be a great addition to my game room.

I currently have a dead mint Vendo 81D I never use. Would like to trade it's space and value for a nice visual 45 RPM Jukebox. No religion formed toward any preference but thinking a colorful 50s jukebox that will play the maximum number of selections and great sound (originality in amp not paramount to me, just want it to sound good). The Vendo is worth $6500 retail, what would you veterans suggest? I don't think I would want a bubbler, that's been done to death, something unusual or rare would be cool.

Thanks!

John

Unusual and rare but with great sound may be a bit of a challenge.
I to have restored many vintage wedgehead pinball machines, current count 12, and 1920-1930 Mills slots (6 currently). Finally a few months back jumped in with both feet into the magic world of jukeboxes, always wanted one. I picked up what many have said, the jukebox that changed it all... The Seeburg HF100R, not so rare but powerful Amp, 5 speakers, 100 songs and the 50's nostalgia.

As with rare pinball machines, the more rare the harder it is to support, repair and find parts. So keep that in mind with a jukebox too.

John, all of the 1950s jukes up until the Seeburg V-200 were e-m. Seeburgs went to an all electronic memory system with that machine. While I consider that system and it descendants superior to anything else from that era, it is a bit different working on those Tormat era Seeburgs compared to say a pinball. The circuits are not complicated and if these simplified schematics make sense to you, you should have no problem.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=58
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=57

I my opinion, if you want a machine that is and will remain reliable and repairable for the longterm I suggest a late fifties Seeburg.

My favorite for operating is the 201 from 1958. Smaller version are 101 (100 sel) and 161 (160 sel) The only odd item that presents a challenge is the pickup and that has recently gotten simpler with the introduction of newly made styli for the double-sided pickup.

The maximum number of selections available was/is 200 (100 record) . Seeburg only made a 200 from 1955 till 1958. After that the maximum was 160 although one 200 model was made in the mid-eighties which used video display for titles.

Wurlitzer, AMi & Rock-Ola all made good 200 selection machines, I've owned several of each maker from that era and as E-M design they may seem more familiar, but remember that mechanical storage of songs selections is always going to be more complex than the relatively simple Seeburg Tormat.

When assessing a possible purchase one of the most important things for a first-timer is that the machine be intact. If you examine the insides, look for evidence that parts and assemblies have been swapped-out. this often means the former owner scavenged things to keep others running. Look for plugs not in their sockets, dust disturbed and gaps where 'something should be". Unrestored jukes are often filthy and that is to be expected from the places they were used and stored. Excessive rust is another matter, it can mean long storage in damp locations and this may have damaged transformers and make freeing-up mechanical linkages difficult.

DO NOT PLUG IT IN! Unless it has recently been running. Even then, use caution. Burned out transformers and motors are major cost items and can set back a restoration for weeks.

Whatever you choose, make sure to get a service manual and resist the urge to tinker until you understand the basics of how it works.

Good hunting, and keep us informed.

Rob/NYC

I like it! Googled these, Pricy! I will keep an eye out for a reasonable restore project. What should I pay for a complete prospect?

Rob-NYC wrote:John, all of the 1950s jukes up until the Seeburg V-200 were e-m. Seeburgs went to an all electronic memory system with that machine. While I consider that system and it descendants superior to anything else from that era, it is a bit different working on those Tormat era Seeburgs compared to say a pinball. The circuits are not complicated and if these simplified schematics make sense to you, you should have no problem.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=58
http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=57

I my opinion, if you want a machine that is and will remain reliable and repairable for the longterm I suggest a late fifties Seeburg.

My favorite for operating is the 201 from 1958. Smaller version are 101 (100 sel) and 161 (160 sel) The only odd item that presents a challenge is the pickup and that has recently gotten simpler with the introduction of newly made styli for the double-sided pickup.

The maximum number of selections available was/is 200 (100 record) . Seeburg only made a 200 from 1955 till 1958. After that the maximum was 160 although one 200 model was made in the mid-eighties which used video display for titles.

Wurlitzer, AMi & Rock-Ola all made good 200 selection machines, I've owned several of each maker from that era and as E-M design they may seem more familiar, but remember that mechanical storage of songs selections is always going to be more complex than the relatively simple Seeburg Tormat.

When assessing a possible purchase one of the most important things for a first-timer is that the machine be intact. If you examine the insides, look for evidence that parts and assemblies have been swapped-out. this often means the former owner scavenged things to keep others running. Look for plugs not in their sockets, dust disturbed and gaps where 'something should be". Unrestored jukes are often filthy and that is to be expected from the places they were used and stored. Excessive rust is another matter, it can mean long storage in damp locations and this may have damaged transformers and make freeing-up mechanical linkages difficult.

DO NOT PLUG IT IN! Unless it has recently been running. Even then, use caution. Burned out transformers and motors are major cost items and can set back a restoration for weeks.

Whatever you choose, make sure to get a service manual and resist the urge to tinker until you understand the basics of how it works.

Good hunting, and keep us informed.

Rob/NYC

Where can I research values?

John,
Alwaysjukin puts out a price guide---
Ron Rich

Someone do me a solid and post the price range for a complete Seeburg VL 200 . By the way what's the difference between that and a 200?

Well as a Noob will I made an impulse buy on ebay for this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231349540297?ss ... 1436.l2649
I will drive up to MD from NC and inspect before shelling out the money but I will need some advice on what what to look for as far as gotchas and will need support on how to fix the problems. Amp hum and won't scan right. Have pity on a fool before he and his money are soon parted. Please PM if you can help.

Hi John,
Since this may be of "general interest", I will not "PM" you, but answer on the forum.
IMHO, you have picked one of the most difficult Seeburgs to work on, as your "1st attempt".
Being a "veteran" of at least 25 "restorations" of this model ( just finished a "basket case", a few weeks ago), I would look for the following prior to loading it onto my truck--
Open the rear "hatch" and check that the frog has not been damaged, by transporting it on it's back.
Check that the proper components are installed in the rear door (TSR-3, "control center", with a DCU-1 {or 5} L-L6 pricing unit mounted to it and a HMFA-1 {NO "J", stamped on it} ) amp.
If one does not come with it--purchase a service manual package, and I might suggest, that my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide", should be of help (PM me to purchase, if you wish). Good luck! Ron Rich
"

......and a HMFA-1 {NO "J", stamped on it} ) amp

FWIW: The only difference between the amp for the V-VL and the J is that smaller coupling ( 0.02 vs. 0.047) caps are used to attenuate bass response and avoid acoustic feedback with the much lighter mechanism. There may be a resistor change in the AGC section, but you can easily bump the J amp up to the full response. Tube compliment and transformers are the same.

Personally, I think that John got a pretty good deal on his VL. Granted, I don't know anything about the seller's rep. IF the chrome looks as good as pictured and the machine is complete it should be straight-forward.

Rob/NYC

Once I set on a task, I go whole hog. LoL that's vhy the V200 looked perfect, it's the whole hog and then some. I am getting mixed reviews on the deal I struck. Some say I am paying on the high side but if the chrome is all good and it is as it is represented, has little else wrong with it, the barrel is good, I think I got a pretty decent deal. Thanks for the advice so far, keep it coming!

Update: Exact text I sent to the seller -

(seller) = sellers name
Me: "(seller)?"

Seller: Yes, I'm busy

Me: No rush just doing my homework, All systems go. Experts I have asked for advice say it's worth the price though a bit on the high side but I'm still fully on board. All seems to hinge on barrel, chrome and no surprises. Can I have better pics if you have them? Any work done on it by your techs? I know you guys do volume and don't do a lot of this stuff but I would appreciate it.

Seller: If you are (not) unsure id rather cancel the transaction. I do not feel comfortable selling it to you.

Me: No don't cancel unless you don't want to deal with nervous noob to jukes. I have a long drive, just want a high level assurance there are no surprises before I spend the time and gas.

Seller:Yea, I'm gonna cancel it.

Me: Cool np

To their point, I put in an offer based on the very limited pics and description, it was accepted. They are not obligated any further.

To my point, I don't think it unreasonable to ask a seller to put minimal effort into confirming all was as represented on a several thousand dollar purchase before spending 14 hours driving a gas guzzling pickup to MD from NC and back only to find it is NOT as represented or facts were omitted. (which this seller has a reputation for doing) I was moving forward with the transaction even though I got feedback from many resources I was paying a high premium for a project machine.

I'm sure this isn''t be a surprise to anyone who has dealt with these guys.

Not trying to bring in drama, just thought I'd share I am still looking for a V or VL, and have made some great contacts in my education that will enable me to find one and at a reasonable and fair price too. I may need to be a little more patient though.

Thanks again for all the advice. It's been fun learning. I can certainly see the appeal of the hobby.

Hi John,
I am sorry you had this type of experience, with this seller, and I will not, in anyway attempt to defend what I consider to be "rude"--at the least, ( I do get "accused" of this too, usually when I am attempting to be "funny"). I hope you will carry on and purchase another jukebox soon ! Ron Rich

I am sure I will, I'm bitten and smitten after learning what I already have.

John

Do not let that jerk stop your interest in jukeboxes. I had him attmpet to bully me innto changing a rating I gave a seller on ebay that was a friend of his. I would not be bullied by him and told him so in no uncertain terms.

I still have a good relationship with the seller I gave my honest rating to, but your "seller" has barred me from buying anything from him. He is very anti-social and you are better off getting another unit from some one that is more trust worthy. I have plenty of reputable sellers and do not need him, what he forgets is that bad attitude gets around and it is his loss not mine.

By the way the issue involved was what I felt was the seller leaving out important information, the same reason he is not wanting to sell to you.

Keep your chin up, you will find a unit.

Best
Darrell