Phonoland

Rob sent the scans--not me-- ( I'm too busy--er, actually, lazy, to re-print items from any service manual )
Yes-those are the items I was referring to.
Ron Rich

Ok guys had some time to me work on it this morning. here is what I found.
the issue I think is I am not getting 24v to the B,C and D coils.
I manually push the D coil to the open position and I can select any A title but NO B,C or D title
if I manually set the wobble plate to the B position I can select all B titles NO A,C or D
the same if I set to C position and the D coil fully retracted was were I started
from what I can see the 24vAC comes from the coin mech plug.
I put a meter on the black wire that goes to the D coil that aisy chains to B and C
and it shows 9.2VAC
it looks like that voltage comes from the bridge rectifier.
does any of this make sense.
again thanks for the help!

The next logical step is to test the voltage from that bridge rect under load. If the changer motor works normally it is doubtful that the rect is bad --but measure it to be sure.

The other question I have is why you are able to position the --rocker plate-- to punch other letters.

Once again, "A" is the default, or at-rest position. There is a spring that -should- pull the rocker plate back to this position. When an "A" is selected NO voltage is applied to the driver or stop solenoids.

Rob

Gents,
I think "some thing's wrong here"-- A "bridge rectifier" puts out DC voltage, not "9.2 V-AC" ??

Do you have the keyboard "out of the cabinet", or is it "bolted", or just "laying in" the casting ?
Ron Rich

the keyboard is installed
the piston on the D coil is very tight that is why I can position it to each letter.
it isn't super tight just I can move it easy but it will not retract on its own.

OK--Didja L@@K UNDER that keyboard--is the "fishpaper installed (glued) onto the casting ?? I suspect not ! Especially if you can move the "D piston, with the power OFF---
Ron Rich

Rob-NYC wrote:
My old shop manuals only go beck to 2104 -but that is essentially the same. Frozen bearings are common on those old machines, the oil has turned to molasses.

Had the same problem on my 2410, on the very bottom of the mech was an arm that went one way or the other when a coil pulled in, the coil didn't have the power to move the arm far enough because the oil on the pivot was gummy. Took it apart, cleaned it up, oiled it, got it moving easily and now it selects fine.

Ron Rich wrote:OK--Didja L@@K UNDER that keyboard--is the "fishpaper installed (glued) onto the casting ?? I suspect not ! Especially if you can move the "D piston, with the power OFF---
Ron Rich

Ron I did pull the keyboard off BUT I don't see where there would be fish paper installed? top/bottom back are not touching the casting only the front near the button shafts are in contact with the casting and there doesn't look to be anything between them?
Am I missing something?
I can move the shaft on D with and without power
I thought that as long as power isn't applied to the coil I should be able to move the shaft. once power is applied the coil should pull and I shouldn't be able to move it.

Yes--that fish paper MUST be there--the keyboard "bends" enough that the contacts for the four large buttons touch the casting, at times. It is an approximately 4x6 inch piece, glued down to the cabinet casting under the keyboard. Try the following and see if it makes a difference-- Loosen and raise the keyboard assembly slightly from it's "home position"--while "up"--make selections and see what happens--
With power off, you should be able to move the plunger fairly easily. With power applied to the coil, you may, or may not, be able to move plunger--but if energized, that coil should be able to "suck-in" the plunger, and once in that position, the plunger should be difficult to move--Ron Rich

the ABCD buttons are only touching the casting on the screw stand offs
the #buttons are not touching the casting due to a plexiglass in between them
the D coil can be moved at any state. that is why I don't think I am getting power to it

OK- I give up--post it when you find it--please--
Ron Rich

"Wedge" once again....Does the rocker plate spring back to it's non-powered rest position which is the "A" group? When turned by hand it should pull back when released.

Rob

Don't give up!
I am over my head here!
my biggest question is where is the power to the B,C and D coil power from?
the schematic is far from clear
I removed the D coil and it is good 9.0 ohms but the coil sleeve looks to have melted a bit, the plunger is very tight. I tried to clean the sleeve to help movement a bit but not much better. it looks like hard to find part? am I correct?

Wedge, first of all you haven't answered about the movement of the rocker plate. This is essential in determining part of the problem.

my biggest question is where is the power to the B,C and D coil power from?
the schematic is far from clear

This schematic: http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... sort=3&o=2 Is as clear as it gets. Approx 28 volts DC is provided by the rectifier to the driver coil. However it has to get back to chassis ground to complete the circuit and allow it to energize. Follow the heavy line and you'll see how this is done. The two "latch switches" are on the keyboard assembly and they close: one when a letter is pressed -the other for a number. When a letter other than "A" is pressed the driver solenoid is active and pulls the rocker plate away from it's rest position which is the "A" group. For B and C the stop magnets are in-series with the driver. For D the driver gets full current.

I removed the D coil and it is good 9.0 ohms but the coil sleeve looks to have melted a bit

If by that you mean the driver solenoid, I'd say you have found a problem. 9 Ohms is way too low for a DC coil. I had a similar coil fail in a 3110 and replaced it with the cancel coil from a Playrak. I don't know the proper impedance of that coil, but someone here may be able to tell you. If similar to the ones used in the later machines, it is fairly generic. You can rewind it if so-inclined.

Rob

Sorry--but I have to "give up"--for the following reasons:
1. If you had purchased a service manual from one of the "ligit" re-sellers listed above, you would ( or should have) a great copy of the schematic ( If not, SCREAM at the supplier, --most will search-out, and reprint, a good copy for you).
2. You seemingly refuse to answer questions, or do as suggested---
3. At this point, I can't think of anything else to suggest ??
Ron Rich