Seeburg 222 issues, where to focus first ?

So I purchased a non working 222 with the hopes of restoring, we are talking first jukebox here. I have experience restoring pins from mechanical to electronic so I thought I'd give this a try. I've tore it completely down, and have it on the bench as it was a mess. Cleaned the mechanic and clutch, and recapped the tsu1 so far. It will scan now, and I can trip it manually to pick up a record. But rather than play the record it returns it immediately, 1st symptom on page 35 of Ron Mech. Guide. Guessing it may be the reject circuit, but not sure how to trace. Also, the unit will not pick up a record when selected as it will only scan twice and stop. I tried the battery test (c test) outlined in procedure chart 17 of seeburg troubleshooting guide and still will not select a record unless I force it with the b test. So my first question is where to focus first, reject issue or selection issue ? Thanks for any help in advance.

Jim

Hi Jim,
Thanks for buying the "Seeburg Mechanism Guide". I would start with the mechanism--remove the 2050 tube from the TSU, trip it, and see if it will play the record. If it returns the record to the rack, you most likely have a frozen clutch yoke pin ( see the mech guide). If it plays--return the tube to the TSU, while playing, and see if it rejects the record while playing. If it does reject, prior to the needle getting into the "reject groove", You have a short in the reject circuit, or a closed switch.
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron, looks as if I have an intermittent closed switch. After testing and then playing with the switch and trying to clean with some contact cleaner(only on the micro switch), it started to function and played the record to the end. Then a little while later it would always reject the record again, so it looks like I need to purchase a new switch.

I moved on to the selection issue, got to the F test in the trouble shooting guide, and the neon lamp flashed when jumping H and F. The directions say under step 2, lamp should flash when connection is made. It does, but then in caps IF LAMP FLASHES - REPLACE TORMAT MEMORY UNIT. So should it or shouldn't it flash ? Seems an odd way to describe a bad unit. Can these be repaired ?

At least my mechanism is working well. Thanks for the help.

Hi Jim,
Are you sure the counter balance spring is good, and adjusted to spec.(trip switch spring pressure adjustment), and the pick-up return/reset, adjustment is also correct-- ??
You "can't" purchase a "new" switch, as they have not made any in about 40 years--what you can do is either purchase a good used one, or CAREFULLY,open/clean/the old one--The switches sold for that purpose on ePay, are NOT correct, and can not properly be adjusted to work for very long-due to two differences. The "actuator" must be "metal" to operate correctly, and the internal spring is generally too stiff on the ones he sells-- Ron Rich

Hi Jim,
I forgot to respond about the "Tormat problem"--
I doubt that the Tormat is bad--I have only seen a hand-full that were bad, and EVERYONE that was, was either "opened" dropped, or "cleaned with a wire brush, or sandpaper".
Did you attempt to flip the Torriods using a D-cell ? If that works, the only thing that could be "wrong" with the Tormat is the plug/wires--If that does NOT work, it still could be a problem other then the Tormat--in the TSU--
Ron Rich

Ok, I'll work on that micro switch, I tried to set the action according to a short film that I found here or at another site. The spring is questionable so ill look more closely at that. So , I decide to put test point G & H back together and run it from start. Now my issue has morphed into it picking up a record, playing it, then putting it back into the carriage and then immediately picking the same record back up, clamping, playing ...repeat. It's playing now at least, one step at a time I guess.

Ron Rich wrote:Hi Jim,
I forgot to respond about the "Tormat problem"--
I doubt that the Tormat is bad--I have only seen a hand-full that were bad, and EVERYONE that was, was either "opened" dropped, or "cleaned with a wire brush, or sandpaper".
Ron Rich

You left out: Used as a handle by a-holes. I've had both an LS-2 mech and 201 where that had been done. Broken wires and tiny soldering job.

Rob

jimmac wrote:Ok, I'll work on that micro switch, I tried to set the action according to a short film that I found here or at another site. The spring is questionable so ill look more closely at that. So , I decide to put test point G & H back together and run it from start. Now my issue has morphed into it picking up a record, playing it, then putting it back into the carriage and then immediately picking the same record back up, clamping, playing ...repeat. It's playing now at least, one step at a time I guess.

This may be the "short film":

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g2 ... db022639ad

The biasing spring should only exert enough pressure to assist the trip switch and reduce it's load on the tonearm in the spiral at the end of a record.

Rob/NYC

Rob,
You must have some strange A-H buddies--How the heck can one use the TMU on the LS models as a handle?
You can't even see it on those models they put in "backwards", as the pop meter assembly covers it ??
Also--the counter balance spring does not really "assist" the trip switch--it "counter balances" the internal spring in the switch, and ( if correct, and correctly adjusted) assures trip switch, reset. Ron Rich

Ron, I sould have been more clear, this was a "nude" mech that I inherited from tenth ave. I was building up a hideaway with parts from SS & LS-1&2.

As for strange AH and Gepetto buddies -boy was that true. I was working as an tech on, and off Broadway. The people on tenth were easily weirder -in all aspects- than the "normal' types I worked with in theater. Name a social malady or addiction, it was in the house over there. I often wondered if the fact that these guys worked for themselves and often dealt with shady types in an under-the-radar economy contributed to this situation.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Well, that helps a lot--the HideAway would have had the pop meter on "top", as it was placed in the cabinet in what I consider the "normal" way---But--even so, just thinking about it--seems to me it would be difficult to "bend", a mounted, TMU enough, even if it was used as a handle ?? Ron Rich

Good news, bad news. So after adjusting the trip switch and trying to align the tormat, and also replacing the 2050 tube for the second time, things were looking good. I could make any selection and it would pick up the record , play it, put it back in the magazine and finish scan, then home. Did this for about 15 various selections and it worked every time, yay. Then on the 16th test, when the mechanism put the record back, the 2050 tube glowed much brighter than usual, normally a bright quick flash , and then it proceeded to blow the 5 amp fuse. Ok, so I replace the fuse with my spare, and think , oh that was just a fluke. WRONG !, another glowing tube display followed by a blown fuse. Ok out of fuses, time to take a break. Looks like I'll have some time to research the problem while waiting on some fuses. Thanks for all the previous help.

Jim,
When you "washed" the mech, did you remove the detent coil ? I suspect a shorted (to ground) coil here---
P.S.--Do not "trouble shoot" by inserting new 5 A fuses--or you will also need to replace the tran$$$$former !!
Ron Rich

Yep, that will be a shorted trip coil. Given that Seeburg has the 150VAC on the coil at all times and switches at the ground via the 2050, it is lucky that the coil shorted straight through and not to chassis.

The coil should measure approx 250 ohms.

I always put a 1 amp/slo fuse at the 150 VAC output on the tran.

Rob/NYC

Rob,
I add a 1 amp fast blow at the coil--It holds--
Ron Rich