First serious look at LPC480, serial number 173691

Hi All. Got to spend some time on the LPC480 tonight. I have the service manual, and started identifying components.
Found the service switch, and observed the record play mechanism move back and forth when placed in the scan position.
Read that when holding the service switch in the scan position, and operating the manual credit switch, a selection could be made after returning the service switch to play. I tried that, and was not able to make a selection.
When pressing a number and letter combination, something underneath will make a noise, like a solenoid, or selector or something.
On the album pricing unit, there are two cables that exit the unit. One is a 9 prong plug that plugs into the Tormat Control Center, which it is. The other is a 12 prong plug. If I've read things right, it should be plugged into the Album Scan Control. Any reason NOT to plug it back in?
On the Tormat center, nothing is plugged into J506. It is labeled stepper unit, but I cannot locate a stepper unit. Is it for a remote stepper unit only?
There is an unlabeled male plug laying on the bottom of the cabinet, right side. It looks like it comes out of the income totaler. I didn't count the pins, looks like about 24 pins, or so. I believe the counter has been removed from the income totaler, cannot see anything in the window.
Finally, it looks like a 120v plug that comes from the Disco switch on the back. It is laying in the bottom of the chassis.
Thoughts?

Well "Dad",
More reading will be needed--start with the ID tag on the phono rear--You do not have a "LPC 480" ! You have a series, LPC 480, with modifiers listed on that tag.
Do you have the correct, Information & Operation manual for your model ? This will tell you a whole lot about the phono--( BTW--serial # is not relevant on this model)
As for the larger plug on the APU-2, that is for the ASC --most of them have been removed/dis-abled due to two facts--
1. In some areas they were deemed illegal, or 2. The darned things failed, and were just never repaired. The large plug should have been "taped over" if not installed in it's socket.
Yes--Holding the "bat handle" portion of the service switch in the "scan start" position,and working the slide switch should add 5 cents credit each time the small switch makes contact--is that switch, still spring loaded, and making contact ? You should hear the nickle coil being energized as you slide the small switch.
The ITS was originally in series with the APU--It can be removed without any consequences other then you no longer have an ITS installed in the phono.
If the ID tag on the cabinet has a "R" on it--that phono did have a (Remote Controlled) Stepper (Unit) (RCSU-5), when it left the factory. It may or may not still be in that phono, as you pointed out--needed for WOM's only.
The Disco plug--gonna need to look at the correct Service Manual for that model--Cables are shown there and in the schematics sections. "Disco feature" was probably dis-abled ? Ron Rich

Thanks for the response.

The tag on the back says Model LPC480 DBL.

My service manual says "LP Console, Models LPC 480, LPC480R, LPC480D & LPC480DR".

I thought because the service manual referenced LPC480D, it was the correct one. If I recall, the BL means blue. What does the D mean?

Do you feel this is the correct manual?

Yes, the bat handle is still spring loaded.

Thanks.

Yes--that's the correct manual--but you also need the I&O manual, and the parts manual, (and I would humbly suggest, a copy of my "Seeburg Mechanism Guide" would be of help--PM me if you wish to purchase it). The BL does indicate that the grill cloth was blue on that cabinet, as it left the factory, the D indicates that it had the "Discotheque" kit factory installed. (This would be 'splained in the I & O manual)
BOTH, the "bat handle" and the black slide switch should be spring loaded ! Often times the small switch has broken it's spring--a rubber band around the plug on the left side works well till the rubber band gets broken OR, you can purchase that spring !! Ron Rich

The DBL suffix indicates the discotheque black light package. The ultraviolet really wrecks the graphics and eventually disintegrates the plastic they are printed on. The disco equipped models also had a switch on the back that disabled the readout for all but a certain certain section in which the "discotheque" records were located.

Another bit of over-engineering that just invites kicks from customers.

I've always been surprised at the popularity of the LPC series. Even in the late 1960's I met operators who --hated-- just the plain old Tormat. A V200 is a Lego set compared to this monstrosity. That having been said, I operated one for twenty years ending last December. After the initial rebuild in fall 1995 which included a bit of lobotomy, it was very reliable.

The combination of fast scanning, left-to-right only detent and heavy cover are hard on the clutch member. I'd operated two HLPC's in the early 1990s and both had bucking clutches due to that cover..and lack of lubrication.

Rob-NYC

Good stuff, I appreciate it. Good to know I've got the right manual.

I'm pretty sure that little switch was spring loaded.

I do have the I&O manual, and addendum, and about a dozen other tabs that detail various components individually, including part numbers. The stack is about 3/4" thick.

One page illustrates the record play mechanism with a big box cover. That is missing. Is it more form than function, pretty up the works?

Last night was a "get to know ya" visit, so to speak, both from identifying components on the machine, to getting familiar with the tech data. For example, it seems that the totalizer is gone, and there is no remote stepper, so I can move those tabs to the rear of the binder.

This jukebox looks like it got rode hard and put away wet, so we'll see how it goes. Baby steps...my daughter was going to try and find a local tech, but I enjoy a challenge (to a point) so she's giving me first crack at it. I'll admit, there is a lot more going on in there than I was expecting. I was happy just to see the mechanism travel back and forth, that the whole thing was not dead in the water.

Rob,
Gotta dis-agree with you -- The "D" indicates only that the "Discotheque kit" was factory installed. The "BL" indicates blue cloth rather then "Tangerine"* ("T"), or "Green" (G), was installed. Also--the disco kit did NOT have any "black lights" in it, unless done by the installer ?--that was done, by Seeburg in the next models (PFEA1U--APFEA-1's).
Another point--the mech cover weighs 3lbs. 3 oz--not a sufficient amount to cause problems, nor can I understand your statement that the one way detent causes any problems---as of last Oct. I removed a HLPC-1 that was on the same location, since it was new in 1963/4--- The cover was still on it, and it still had the original clutch--ran daily from 4 PM till Midnight, on weekdays--2AM on Fri/Sat nights !
* "Orange" to me !! Ron Rich

Rob,
Gotta dis-agree with you -- The "D" indicates only that the "Discotheque kit" was factory installed. The "BL" indicates blue cloth rather then "Tangerine"* ("T"), or "Green" (G), was installed. Also--the disco kit did NOT have any "black lights" in it, unless done by the installer ?--that was done, by Seeburg in the next models (PFEA1U--APFEA-1's).

You are absolutely right. I mixed them up due to the U-100 i bought w/disco package. And an LPC480 which had been in a gay bar in the Village (eons ago. It had the UV tubes and ruined plastics.

Another point--the mech cover weighs 3lbs. 3 oz--not a sufficient amount to cause problems, nor can I understand your statement that the one way detent causes any problems---as of last Oct. I removed a HLPC-1 that was on the same location, since it was new in 1963/4---

This, like the damping is one area where we have an ongoing, but friendly, disagreement. All those models with heavy covers from Q-LPC that I've seen had advanced wear on the clutch member and often bucked. Obviously, they hadn't been maintained properly. The hit occurs when it has to instantly accelerate going into scan. The LPC's that I dealt with were worse simply because all the play-to-scan was L-R. On the others it was slightly more distributed.

When I bought one of the HLPC's in 1986, there was no cover. The op advised against using it and gave me a lightweight later one and the front post to mount it. I never bothered to install it. The other HLPC that I used for three years in a retro diner bucked badly and sometimes played the record over again. When I removed the cover it worked properly. After washing and relube, I tried fine-tuning the clutch adjustments to no avail. I just used it w/out the cover.

The hideaway you mentioned must have had your good hands upon it through the years.

Rob

Made a bit of progress today.

The first obstacle to overcome was lack of credits when dropping coins, or using the service switch. I discovered two things: A blown 1/2 amp fuse, and the coin switch arms were bodged up badly, a couple bent sideways, one was bent sideways, and up. Straightened them out, installed new fuse...success! Drop a quarter, the credit indicator lights up.

So, I made a selection, A1. The play mechanism retrieved the record, and played it at about ten rpm. I hit the reject switch on the back. I turned the pitch knob up just a bit, and the record spun a little faster, but not much. Then, it stopped retrieving records.

I tried other selections, and it would not retrieve a record. I tried A1 again, and retrieved the record. I think the selector buttons might not be latching, as I held A1 for just a second as the mechanism moved, it stopped to grab the record.

I was going to try holding down a different set of buttons, say, U1, and see if the the play mechanism would stop at the appropriate place, but something unexpected happened. As I was watching the mechanism cycle back and forth, it stopped all of a sudden on the right side.

I turned the unit off, and back on, and the player tried to continue left from where it stopped, but it only moved about a half inch. I tried it again, it moved about a half inch. Turned the machine off for the night.

"Dad" -the selection receiver --must-- be rebuilt before safe operation can be achieved.

You are running a distinct risk of burning up the main transformer and setting the whole project way back and making it much more costly.

Similarly, the mechanism must be properly oiled --at the very least.

This is 50+ year-old commercial equipment. Rugged, but not indestructible.

Rob-NYC

Rob, thanks for the input.

When you say selection receiver, do you mean the Tormat unit? Still putting the lingo together in my head.

And, when you say "rebuilt", are you talking about replacing the caps in the Tormat?

On a separate but related note (I've been researching/reading on this almost daily, so I can't quote where I read this), I read to replace the diodes in the speed control section. Thoughts?

In any event, I'm going to get some blue can 3-n-1, and get after the lubrication.

The term "selection receiver", is the older term for what is called the "Tormat Control Center" (TCC-1/2) in the LPC models. Seeburg liked to confuse things with names ! Later units were called "Solid State Control Centers"(SCC), Then, "Digital Control Centers" (DCC), and "Phono Control Centers" (PCC), in the 160 selection models--100 selection models had other names, for the equivalent unit--
The TCC's usually need all lytic, and "paper" caps changed, along with various resistors that have wondered in value.
Code A TCC, need to be checked as do most other control centers , for a .01/14kv ceramic cap across the 117 AC points, in the scan control. This cap MUST be soldered well--tends to fall off !
"Diodes" in the 45TASU, rarely fail--caps do--
Blue can, 3 in One oil, is no longer available--I think--Just be sure it says "motor oil-20 wt." on whatever color the can is today---
Ron Rich

indeed, most of the puzzling selection behaviors in the first week of monkeying with my new-found, well-worn LPC were cleared up when i recapped the TCC. i'm an amateur tech, so it took a little while, got a recap kit from Victory Glass, there three or four dozen caps as i recall. diagnosing became a lot more logical from that point on.


Guys - i'm wondering what the mech cover was intended for... maybe just to keep things clean, but is there a shielding aspect? with that little wire on top?

i like to run without it, too. mostly cuz i'm always fiddling with the balance springs, etc. but also cuz i miss seeing the mech in detail when the cover's on.

anybody notice a quieter noise floor with it on? i can't, but my amp sounds crappy anyway...

The mech cover serves two purposes--actually three--
1. To protect from a record being thrown out of the mechanism, if, the lift arm, or record itself happens to "jam".
2. To help keep the mechanism clean
3. To keep "your fingers out"--you should not need to "mess with" anything !
Yes--the "little wire" functions as a "shield", and MOST importantly as a safety wire, just in case 117 voltage gets on the cover. It MUST remain in place, for your safety, if the cover is installed!
Ron Rich