Need help identifying a wierd Grafonola

I just bought this wierd Grafonola. It plays pretty good after 4 drops of oil I put in. Comes with a black label record, one sided with 1902 patent dates, and raised edges on the inside and outside of the grooves to keep the needle from jumping out.

Tabletop model 1 foot square footprint about. Case roughly 5" tall. Crank on front, slightly left. Tone arm dives down into the Top of the machine on rear right. Then a short internal leftgoing run of an internal horn to a rectangular open hole about 5" x 4" on left side. Unmarked pickup and machine except for the inner label, "Important All bearings on this motor must be thoroughly oiled, especially governor bearings; also, oil frequently (underlined) leather friction shoe which contacts governor sliding collar". The case is Very plain and minimalist. Single spring motor plays only one 10" record. 10 inch turntable. No stop mechanism. Has a speed regulator on the left. Looking up from the bottom, the motor mechanism is covered fully by a plate, numbered 40544 if that means anything to date it (I hope it does). Runs quiet and smoothly. Nothing has been restored, and the reproducer mica gasket is pretty rotten looking. No turntable felt is left.

Anyone know what this might be?

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

wdjensen123 at hotmail dot com

Hi Bill:

What you have is the Columbia "Marvel" which appears on page 100 of Robert Baumbach's Columbia Phonograph Companion, Vol. II.

Here are the specs:

Type -- Grafonola
Introduced -- 1912

"The Marvel was a small, single spring instrument of the most rudimentary design. It was obviously built with cost as the primary goal. It does not appear in the regular Columbia catalogs of the period, and is most likely what would have been referred to as a "scheme" machine--that is one that was intended to be used as a premium or incentive."

I realize that that's not much to go on.

Hi Joe,

That helps me! Do you know if these are common or rare? How much would it go for?

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

Being a cheap machine, it wouldn't be rare. As far as value goes, probably best to keep checking ebay for the same machine in the same sort of condition, and see what it goes for. I couldn't see it being anymore than $100.

As Shane notes, this was a cheaply made machine, and as Baumbach explained, it was probably not available for general sale to the public, but was purchased by businesses as a "give away" item; for instance, "If you buy ten records we'll give you a FREE Grafonola!"

Premium type machines are relatively scarce, today, because they were normally discarded when they required repair, or they were eventually replaced with a more expensive model. (I've only seen a few of the Victor premium style talking machine on eBay; never a Columbia model.) Because of this, I am hesitant to quote a price range. I'd advise, if you want to sell it on eBay, leave it in as-found, non-restored condition, and set a minimum bid of around $100-$150. Be as descriptive in your ad as possible, and mention that this was probably one of Columbia's "premium" models.

If you want to keep it, then the sound box (reproducer) should be restored with fresh rubber gaskets before you play too many records. Also, you can find replacement felt for the turntable from one of the many sellers mentioned in this link, under Accessories/Restoration: http://www.proaxis.com/~settlet/record/links.html

Thank you Shane and Joe !

I plan to sell it on Ebay I think. I probably overpaid at $95 for it. But it does work amazingly well for such a tiny thing.

Joe or anyone else, can I Paypal pay you to scan page 100 of the book, and email it to me, or post it here? I can't find the book for sale anywhere, and would only really need that page. Is there a picture of the machine on page 100?

I scoured the web for any instances or pictures of this Grafonola and Marvel, but can't find it anywhere. On the other hand there are plenty of pictures and references to the other grafonolas. That made me think it might be rare. Kind of like a $3 throwaway phonograph that people did not attach much 'value' to since they got it for free, and throw it out freely making it rarer.

It mentions 'scheme' machine which I take to be a machine that plays only special discs like large hole standards, or one with an extra hole, or busy bee. That forces the people to keep buying that particular type of record so they make more money. I wonder what such a scheme would be here with the Marvel? It plays regular records.

I also heard that sometimes stores got cheap free machines to demo the records on that they sold. Could it be one of those? If it was a promo, then why is there no advertizing sticker on it for 'Columbia' which would help boost sales I would imagine? In 1914 were they rarely marked in general?

Is it strange that the pickup does not have any Columbia markings? I would have thought that by 1914 they would all be marked. Or maybe it was made generic so another distributor could sell or give it away under their auspices.

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

wdjensen123 at hotmail dot com

Joe or anyone else, can I Paypal pay you to scan page 100 of the book, and email it to me, or post it here? I can't find the book for sale anywhere, and would only really need that page. Is there a picture of the machine on page 100?

Yes there is an illustration (detailed drawing) of the Marvel, on page 100, along with the text I provided in my post. I don't have a scanner or a digital camera, unfortunately, and the copy shops nearby do not provide this service; but perhaps there are other members on this site who are more technologically equipped. If you are in no hurry to sell it, wait a few days and see if any more responses come in. If not, you might try asking on the Old Time Victrola Music Message Board (Google "Sonoraman" and it will be the first one on the list.) I know a number of members at that site have Baumbach's books, and quite a few would probably be willing to help you out--gratis. But, keep in mind, if you want to use the illustration for your eBay ad, the book is copyrighted and you may have to get the author's permission.

It mentions 'scheme' machine which I take to be a machine that plays only special discs like large hole standards, or one with an extra hole, or busy bee. That forces the people to keep buying that particular type of record so they make more money. I wonder what such a scheme would be here with the Marvel?

That would be one example of a scheme machine, but I think Baumbach uses the word in a more general sense; in other words, the Marvel was designed to be used as part of a "sales scheme" by the purchasers, who would probably buy in lot quantities. They might then turn around and use it as a promotional item--as I noted, a "give away" for purchasing x-number of records. In some cases, the companies that purchased this type of phonograph might be totally unrelated to music. (Open a bank account and get a free phonograph--that sort of thing.)

Is it strange that the pickup does not have any Columbia markings? I would have thought that by 1914 they would all be marked. Or maybe it was made generic so another distributor could sell or give it away under their auspices.

A number of Columbia phonographs do not have the typical markings. One reason for this is that Columbia produced several models sold under other brand names, such as Reginaphone, Standard, Symphony, Artino, Royal, Harmony and Busy Bee. (Columbia Phonograph Companion, Vol II, Page 50). If the Marvel was specifically intended to be sold as a give-away or promotional item, it's very possible that they deliberately left off any markings so that the outside distributors could affix their own labels.

Hi Joe,

Sometimes a cell phone camera can email a picture, if you have one.

About the book: what proportion of the machines mentioned in the book are accompanied with illustrations versus photos? Does it mention where Mr. Baumbach lives so I can look him up? It might be nice to cite his reference if I decide to sell it.

Your replies make a lot of sense of all the information, and I appreciate you spending the time to answer them.

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

http://www.wdjensen123.com/hieronymus/Plans.htm
is my research on Hieronymus 1949 psychic machines

wdjensen123 wrote:Hi Joe,

Sometimes a cell phone camera can email a picture, if you have one.

About the book: what proportion of the machines mentioned in the book are accompanied with illustrations versus photos? Does it mention where Mr. Baumbach lives so I can look him up? It might be nice to cite his reference if I decide to sell it.

Hi Bill:

Sorry, my cellphone is very basic--no camera.

Flipping through the book, about 60-70 percent of the images are illustrations culled from original catalogs, marketing brochures, trade publications, advertisements, etc., while about 30-40 percent are rather grainy photos--in some cases, it's hard to tell if they are photos or drawings. They are also taken from original source material. All images/photos are in B&W.

I don't have Mr. Baumbach's personal contact information, but you may be able to get in touch with him via his publisher, Mulholland Press. There's an email jump on this page: http://mulhollandpress.com/index.htm

Thank you all and Joe for all your help on my machine. I learned a lot.

It is now on Ebay for sale (I need the cash):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0168857693

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

Hi Bill:

The ad looks fine. Hopefully, whomever buys it will have a keen appreciation for it, and take whatever steps may be needed to properly restore & preserve it.

Good luck with your sale!

Joe_DS

Yeah I would buy it if I had more room I already have so many phonos that the spouse is saying had enough lol:-)
Never understands why I have so many different machines and records.

I have the following:

Edison Amberola 30
Edison Home Phonograph with "C" reproducer and recorder
Edison Diamond Disc Model B-19 (Chalet)
Edison Model P-1 Portable

Pathe Model 60

Victrola VV-VI
Victrola VV 1-70
Victrola VV-50
Victrola VV-IX

Columbia Model Q cylinder
Talk-o-Phone outside horn machine

125 Edison Diamond Discs
400 78's (mostly 1900-1930)
75 Edison 2 minute/Columbia 2 minute cylinders
75 Edison Amberola cylinders

I will be making a website to display these for people.