Rock-Ola 496-1 problem/issue

Steve: I've bought two Rockolas (442 & 463) that came with the grippers reassembled incorrectly. I drove myself nuts the first time until I quit assuming it was correct when I got it. Remove the gripper motor so you can (carefully) operate it by hand and watch what the gears do throughout the cycle. It's so easy with the 490, 494, and 496s because the whole record mech if flipped around and its all right up front. And yes, you do have an A/B switch that operates along with the other parts to select the record side. If you just put it all back together and it works right the first time, go right out and buy lottery tickets, because it's your lucky day. Otherwise study carefully how they mesh moving through the cycle; the different lobes move the various parts. Be careful to not force anything, that just means they are not aligned properly yet with their mating parts. Once the gripper operates properly in both directions, tighten the large flat screw with the star washer. Then make sure the micro switch roller is in the notch on the cam when the bow is over the record magazine.
Patrick

Steve,
The "gripper arm reversing cam" was what I was thinking about--if it is not "guided", the gripper itself can not "know" which way the record needs to go--. The same thing that guides the "peace symbol" ( I like that term better !) also guides the AB switch ( the cam follower, in the basket). It sounds as if the AB switch is changing--is it ?? If so, follow the linkage,as it's all mechanical, to the back of the gripper and determine what is, or is not, happening--Ron Rich

Juke-rocks wrote:Steve: I've bought two Rockolas (442 & 463) that came with the grippers reassembled incorrectly. I drove myself nuts the first time until I quit assuming it was correct when I got it. Remove the gripper motor so you can (carefully) operate it by hand and watch what the gears do throughout the cycle. It's so easy with the 490, 494, and 496s because the whole record mech if flipped around and its all right up front. And yes, you do have an A/B switch that operates along with the other parts to select the record side. If you just put it all back together and it works right the first time, go right out and buy lottery tickets, because it's your lucky day. Otherwise study carefully how they mesh moving through the cycle; the different lobes move the various parts. Be careful to not force anything, that just means they are not aligned properly yet with their mating parts. Once the gripper operates properly in both directions, tighten the large flat screw with the star washer. Then make sure the micro switch roller is in the notch on the cam when the bow is over the record magazine.
Patrick

Just when I think I'm starting to understand, a new confusion sets in.

Patrick, I am able to rotate the gripper assembly by turning the knob on the end of the motor. Do I still need to remove the motor?

Also, then I say I disassembled the entire gripper assembly, that might've been rookie-speak. I disassembled, cleaned, relubricated and reassembled the gripper arm and related assemblies, I.E, spider assembly, Trunion shaft, gripper reversing cam and the two gears that are installed onto the front end of the trunion shaft. That's it. Did I leave something out? Is there more that I need to address?

Ron Rich wrote:Steve,
The "gripper arm reversing cam" was what I was thinking about--if it is not "guided", the gripper itself can not "know" which way the record needs to go--. The same thing that guides the "peace symbol" ( I like that term better !) also guides the AB switch ( the cam follower, in the basket). It sounds as if the AB switch is changing--is it ?? If so, follow the linkage,as it's all mechanical, to the back of the gripper and determine what is, or is not, happening--Ron Rich

Peace sign....groovy! I guess I'll look deeper into the bowels of the gripper. I assumed, based on what I could see, that everything is driven off the motor-driven shaft that turns the gripper gears. I'll study on it and see what exactly is....or is not happening.

Thank you, Ron. You say you don't know Rock Ola's, but you and Patrick are a HUGE help to me.\

Thanks,
Steve

Steve,
I don't know RockOla's as for years, there was a great Gent who went by the name "RockOla Charlie". I was "lazy" and called him anytime I had a problem with a RockOla, and he would sort it out, in seconds, for me ( I did the same for him on Seeburgs, there was a another guy who knew AMi/Rowes, and another one who knew WurliTzers). Sad to say--I'm the last of the four of us--I sure miss being able to "discuss problems" with all of them--- I worked almost exclusively on Seeburgs, for years, but every once in awhile, one of the other brands got to me for repair--- Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Steve,
I don't know RockOla's as for years, there was a great Gent who went by the name "RockOla Charlie". I was "lazy" and called him anytime I had a problem with a RockOla, and he would sort it out, in seconds, for me ( I did the same for him on Seeburgs, there was a another guy who knew AMi/Rowes, and another one who knew WurliTzers). Sad to say--I'm the last of the four of us--I sure miss being able to "discuss problems" with all of them--- I worked almost exclusively on Seeburgs, for years, but every once in awhile, one of the other brands got to me for repair--- Ron Rich

I heard that Rockola Charlie passed away a few years ago. I also heard he was a heck of a nice man. I used to be heavily involved in antique (pre-WWII) tube radios and through that hobby, met some of the nicest, most helpful people you can imagine. I get the feeling I'll be saying the same thing about jukebox folks as well!

By the way, my other jukebox is a Seeburg LPC480! Works, but the autospeed module needs to be re-capped. What's your opinion of that particular model?

Hi Steve,
The 480's were the most complex coin operated jukeboxes ever made. They are very reliable, IF, the "album scan" module is not used. If it is used, and happens to still be a un-modified code A type--lord only knows how it's still operating--code B's were slightly better, but the whole thing depended on a mechanical switch, being "spun", and that switch was designed to only "spin" by hand, a known number of times. Then they came out with the 480 D models--this added more "complexity" to them, although I don't think they added any reliability problems with the D model-- Ron Rich

Steve: you don't need to remove the gripper motor. I just do it while I'm checking the action of the gripper. Maybe you've got calloused fingertips, I just get tired of turning that little knurled piece. . That way I can also pull the bow against the inner spring and simulate A & B side play. If the gears are meshed properly, and the linkage is properly reattached, the gripper will move through the cycle and back on both sides. If that's solved, try the micro / cam alignment and contacts. That's often a trouble spot, though not as much as on earlier models having three and four micro switches.
Patrick

I see two microswitches mounted on the tone arm bracket. They both have roller tips that ride against the last 'wheel' on the long shaft driven by the gripper motor. Are these the switches you mean? I don't see any way to adjust them.

I know that if I 'close' the top switch by pushing on it while the magazine and TT are turning, the magazine stops turning while the TT continues to turn.

UPDATE - Didn't have much time tonight, but I did set things in motion (scan switch in the OPERate position).....and watched. Here are my findings (I uploaded a picture of the gripper assembly I took from my manual and will reference it's descriptions and Item numbers):



• Whenever the magazine's 'Home position' passes under the gripper arm, the gripper reverse assembly bracket (3) moves into either A or B position.

• When the Home position passes under the gripper arm again, that bracket moves into its other position.

• At the same time, the gripper linkage connecting rod (22) moves the gripper & stud rivet assembly linkage (29) either up or down.

• When (29) is moved upwards, its uppermost tip contacts a microswitch (not shown). The contact is sufficient to close the switch (assuming it's a normally open switch).

• When (29) is moved downwards, the switch returns to its normal position.

• The wires to the microswitch 'feel' to be all present and fully connected (none feel loose).

The cycle just continues endlessly.

With the scan switch off, I can manually operate the gripper mechanism through it's cycle. I have learned that the gripper arm will move to flip the record to either side A or B HOWEVER the gripper arm itself has a good amount of slop in it and the motion is jerky (perhaps as the slop it taken up?).

I should note that during the cleaning process none of the parts showed any signs of wear. In fact, during reassembly the machined pieces fit together smoothly and evenly. Curious how much free travel there is in the gripper's 'flipping' cycle.

Does this shed any light?

I'z totally confuzzed now--"slop"--don't recall ever seeing this in a RockOla gripper--guessing here--one or more of the "pins" (such as item 8, or 15) is missing--broken off ?? Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:I'z totally confuzzed now--"slop"--don't recall ever seeing this in a RockOla gripper--guessing here--one or more of the "pins" (such as item 8, or 15) is missing--broken off ?? Ron Rich

Sorry, Ron, but both of those pins are present and accounted for, sir. One is the drive pin that is removed to enable disassembly of the gripper assembly. the other is an alignment pin that threads into the gripper spider.

Yeah. I'm getting vexed by this. Woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this. Never did get back to sleep.

You may need to locate another RockOla, and watch it operate--
Didja notice--there are at least 3 of "those pins" shown in that blow up ?
Ron Rich

Yes sir. I count three in the diagram, with the 3rd holding the gripper shaft gear. All present.

I found a youtube video of a Rockola Supersound 2 that shows a terrific view of the gripper in motion. I watched it over and over again, but I don't see anything that provides my untrained eyes with any clue.

Further investigation is obviously needed, but having no experience, my list of ideas is almost exhausted.

I did not see a need to remove, clean and lubricate the gripper shaft since it doesn't have all the mechanical intricacies of the gripper arm assembly. Could this be causing my problems?

Steve: I'm still thinking of your #1 micro switch here. If you have the service / adjustments book (more like a pamphlet) you should be able to identify the Number 1 micro switch. When the gripper bow is over the basket, the roller on this switch must be in the cam notch. Adjustment is made by loosening two set screws holding the cam to the shaft.
You wrote "I know that if I 'close' the top switch by pushing on it while the magazine and TT are turning, the magazine stops turning while the TT continues to turn." Assuming you're manipulating the no. 1 micro, at that point the gripper motor should start. If it does not, it may be either the connections to the micro, the micro itself, or either of the two ice cube relays on the mech power board located beneath the turntable. On the micro, the three wires connected should be removed and wire and switch contacts cleaned. Check the micro for proper operation as described in the "sticky" in this forum. For the relays, check and clean their contacts both at the board and inside. Don't look for much guidance from the manual. The changes between the 494 (same as 490) and the 496 were poorly documented.
Patrick