Wurlitzer 2900 problem

So first off I will admit I an a novice on Wurlitzer.... Rowe, rockola seeburg... very comfortable. Well down to brass taxes... I have a 2900 and I select any record and it enters the turntable and spins then tonearm contacts record and it rejects. Book says trip switch, cancel switch or remote cancel. I bypassed each one and still the same. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Hummmmm--never experienced that problem with the WurliTzer cancel circuit--anytime I have had a problem there, it has been a failure to cancel ?
That being said, I am wondering how you "bypassed" the switches ?
Other than the remote switch, the two cancel switches in the phonograph are both in a series circuit, and both use the NO and NC contacts. Also involved, IF, I remember correctly, is the "mute/play" switch --check to see if it's activating as the needle lands--once again, from memory, this should stop the motor, till one of the cancel switches closes/opens. The mute/play switch arm may be "stuck", and or the switch itself, or it may have a broken blade ?
If that fails, check the schematic for any xx00 model from the 1700 to 3300, as it should be the same circuit ( even later models, I think, used the same circuit ?). Ron Rich

Thanks Ron. Well I removed one lead on the Trip switch and the. Angel on the amp I just metered it to verify it's normally open. Funny thing is when I test the removed lead and the lead left on the trip switch they show closed. Powered unit down and they show open.

Well,
To me that would indicate that there is a relay involved--however, I do not recall a mute relay in a WurliTzer cancel circuit ? You will need to get out the Service Manual---unless someone else "chimes in"--cause I dono nothin!!
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron, maybe it's not a mute relay. There is a relay on the amp. I'll start tracing the circuit on the schematics.

"RFrancis" this can be caused by several faults.

Stuck or miswired switches. If you look at the functional schematic http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... 1.jpg.html
of the 2204 you'll see that the end trip and cancel are 1PDT --there are three terminals. You have to disconnect at least two terminals to prevent the other wiring from interfering with switch tests.

Another problem area is overtravel of the Mute-Play switch. Unless tampered with (a-hole factor), this was rarely an issue due to the use of dynamic braking with the Dc motor. However, when they went to an AC motor beginning with the 2700 coasting became a potential problem. Do you have a service manual? If not, I'll scan-in the setup procedure for the mech switches. It is simple and just requires the cam rollers to actuate the switches at a specific ramp point on each cam lobe.

Be sure to check the action of the two mech switches. They are over-center type and must have a spring on each switch. the springs have been known to fly off. After dealing with this once I placed a thin piece of trickline (non conductive) through each spring loop and loosely tied to around the associated switch to keep it at least near the switch of it works loose.

BTW: What switches are there at the back of the mech? I believe Wurlitzer still used the open type for several more years, but when replacement was needed a kit with new sealed switch and bracket was supplied. If somebody replaced one here a wiring screwup can cause all sorts of mayhem.

Rob-NYC

Hi Rob,
On that AC motor--does that have a "fly-out" type clutch ? If so, on that type motor, the reason for over-travel is usually lack of proper oil on the armature shaft (large oil reserve felts must be filled).
As for "over-center" type switches with the "double loop spring", or for that mater a coil spring, the major reason for the spring "flying away" is one of your "Geppetto friends" messing with the adjustments of the LIMITING arms. On Seeburg mechanisms, the "rubber bumper" / reversing switch actuators, are incorrectly set allowing the paddle to force the limiting arms outward, thus bending the limit arms to the point that the spring can not be retained.
Ron Rich

On that AC motor--does that have a "fly-out" type clutch ?

Here is what it looks like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wurlitzer-Mecha ... SwqBJXU0fs

They rely on the large gear reduction and the sheer friction of the mechanism. There may be wave washers in the gearbox as well. The lack of positive breaking makes the cam switch adjustment slightly more critical. Once again we have a manufacturer who makes inadequate provision for oiling the gears. I made an 1/8 in hole in a corner of the box to insert a Zoom type oiler w/20wt oil.

I agree with your assessment of the over-center switch springs, but that is what you run into on these old machines where tinkerers have had a hand. Bending those keeper blades in minor compared to the butchery I ran into. Generally, it wasn't the Gepettos in the industry that did stuff like that. It was home-owned machines and "handy uncle Louie" that really did a number on them.

My late friend Bill used to get into a rage when one of those hack jobs came in, he'd remark "they ought to cut his f-----g hands off for this". I don't know who the "they" was..and didn't ask.

Rob

Hi Rob,
Thanks--I could not recall what it looked like--yep--one "oil tube" for one bearing-other end unknown as to how to lube it--I think it is one of those motors where the manufacture "bought the grease makers line"--"permanent grease", was smearedd-ed all over the gears--only a couple of things were over looked--1. either the grease picked up dirt ( metal shavings), and or, 2. the gears threw the grease onto the sides, leaving no lubrication where it's needed ??
?? "--Geppetto-- Uncle Louie--" you gotta something against usin Waps ? Ron Rich

?? "--Geppetto-- Uncle Louie--" you gotta something against usin Waps ?

I always heard that word pronounced with an "o'.

Don't feel too bad, I am of old WASP stock -WE are the root of all evil don't you know...

Rob

Hi Rob,
Yep--a slip of the fingers--WOP, is "correct" ( With Out Papers, in case someone wonders) .
Ron Rich

So I traced the short back to the amp. When I full removed the amp I noticed someone has been having fun. No fuses all wire jumpers. Lots of evidence of a positive smoke test in this thing. I have a replacement on the way. Thanks for the help guys.

Oh boy, that was one main reason I tried to avoid buying machines from homes. Someone "handy" has often been at them.

What areas appear to have 'stepped out for a smoke" and what fuses were jumped-?

I ask for two reasons;

!- General nosiness.

2- The problem you cite of rejecting records is not controlled in the amp -it only supply's the LOW AC and DC for the mech to operate. The only area of the amp that rejects a record is the cancel switch. Unless someone has messed up that wiring, I don't see anything else in the amp that would cause that effect.

Rob

Hey guys,
I have seen, "over-size" fuses, "wire fuses", "hair pin fuses", "tin foil fuses", and even (cut) "brass rod fuses' in commercial phonographs in revenue locations ! Also have seen 150 watt, incandescent lamps placed inside the record compartments of commercial operating ( but not for too long, as the 45's all wrapped ) phonos.
Why don't you try replacing the wire fuses with the correct size/type fuses--like Rob wrote--that amp does not control the reject---Ron Rich

Thanks Guys. The caps are all burned. There is a spaghetti mess of homemade wiring in there. The cancel switch is snapped. And it has multiple exposed wires going to it. They even went as far as rigging the power switch and using epoxy to seal splices.