Victrola VV 4-40 (the Granada's love child)

So I picked up my first Orthophonic Victrola today, the 4-40, which was apparently the next generation of the Granada. Super excited, since I have been scouring Craigslist looking for an Orthophonic in my price range (well below poverty level) since spring. It seems to be in great shape, but the pot metal reproducer is hosed. Cracks all over the outer casing, ominous rattling sounds when I shake it, the works. Still it sounded better than my VV-XI with the no 4 reproducer, if you can ignore the buzzing and screaching. I've done some moderate searching for a replacement, but again ignorance rears its ugly head. Do any of you have any advice on how the HMV reproducers compare to the Orthophonic ones? I found a HMV no 5b in my price range, would it be equivalent? Are there others that I should be keeping an eye out for? All info is much appreciated.

I'm kind of on vacation from the phono-hobby right now, but thought I'd give a quick response here, since this is something I have some personal experience with.

The 4-40 is a very nice performer. Though it does not have quite the bass of a Credenza, it pumps out the same, full, mellow tone, and with a properly restored Orthophonic sound box, provides an amazing, room-filling sound. Like the Credenza, the 4-40 is fitted with a four-chamber Re-Entrant horn, illustrated in the last post in this string -- viewtopic.php?f=7&t=258 It's really quite an improvement, in terms of range, over the Granada model, which had a much smaller horn.

I've played mine with both a carefully restored HMV 5a sound box (virtually the same as the 5b, in terms of performance), and a good condition Orthophonic sound box. Hands down, the Orthophonic sound box is the winner. While the HMV 5a will provide the same sonic range, it does not project the sound into the room the way the Orthophonic sound box does. The volume is also slightly reduced with the 5a.

Since any Orthophonic sound box will fit your tonearm, I'd try to hunt down a good condition example--even the type used on the portable models such as the VV-2-55 or 2-60, though avoid the one used on the VV-2-35, which was a different design. (They normally cost about the same as a good condition 5a/b version, based on what I've seen on eBay, etc.)

As a stop-gap measure, you might want to try a quick overhaul of the Orthophonic sound box you have, unless, of course, there are major cracks in the front or back plate. The major cause of rattling is a poorly seated needle bar bearing. You can fix this by following the instruction posted on this page -- http://www.gracyk.com/orthosound.shtml

This, of course, assumes that the diaphragm is not damaged and that the needle bar is properly soldered in place.

I'd also recommend putting a few drops of something called "Goo Gone," which is used to remove sticky gunk left over from price tags, etc, around the edge of the diaphragm, and swish it around the edge. This will cause the paper-backed rubber gasket to swell somewhat and seal any gaps.

As for the 4-40, itself, when you have a chance, go over the entire tone chamber and make sure there are no leaks or seam gaps, which can lead to a loss of performance, especially bass.

HTH,
Joe_DS

Hi Joe,

Glad to see you keep having a look at whats going on.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

Thanks so much for the detailed response! I found something that was labled as a 'no 21 hmv soundbox' online when I was looking for an orthophonic, or its hmv equivalent reproducer. As far as I had heard, the hmv no 16 was pretty much the end of the line, before it all went electronic. I found it at this link http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/HMV-Victor-No-21 ... 0571553440. I havent been able to find a single thing info wise about it ... can anyone shed some light?

I purchased the HMV 5b, which sounds AMAZING except for a little problem. The rubber flange connecting it to the tone arm was crumbling -- pretty much fell away at my touch. It still sounded good when I broke the rubber away, removed the ring and dead rubber inside, then force fed it to the tone arm, but the poor record I played received a gouging before I did a sight check to make sure it was completely even. I have been looking EVERYWHERE on the websites supplying Victrola parts, but I seem to find everything except replacement rubber flanges to connect the sound box to the tone arm of an Orthophonic. Does anyone have a suggestion?

I thought the Victor & HMV flanges were interchangable? The Exhibition, No.2 & No.4 all are.
In a pinch you can make them from black silicon.
BTW: the No.21 was used on cheaper portables like the Model 97 & 88.

I found out that I had the broken off part of the connector flange from an old sound box still attached to the tone arm. It looked like part of the tone arm itself. I only figured out that it wasnt supposed to be there by looking at pictures of other orthophonic tone arms *sheepish grin*. So I got the old flange off the arm, and put on a Orthophonic I got from phonographs.org (as a result of the response to a previous post, thanks BTW!). Sounds AMAZING far above and beyond the VV-XI I got back in May. Curiously though the bass and mid range is clear as a bell, it seems like the higher notes are rather tinny and harsh on the ears at mid to loud playback. Is that just one of the inherent disadvantages of Victrola vs later electric record players? Or are there steps I can take in my restoration/rehabilitation of this Victrola to further improve its sound?

The orthophonic reproducer literally came apart while playing a record. Needle housing came uncoupled from the backing, rubber gasket fell into crumbling pieces, and my record has a fabulous new scratch where the whole thing came tumbling down, baby and all. I put my old HMV 5b back on the tone arm, and its okay, but does anyone have any suggestions or listings for a replacement orthophonic reproducer or a competent repair?

lithic_leo wrote:The orthophonic reproducer literally came apart while playing a record. Needle housing came uncoupled from the backing, rubber gasket fell into crumbling pieces, and my record has a fabulous new scratch where the whole thing came tumbling down, baby and all. I put my old HMV 5b back on the tone arm, and its okay, but does anyone have any suggestions or listings for a replacement orthophonic reproducer or a competent repair?

If that's the Orthophonic sound box you recently purchased from Phonographs.org, get in touch with them immediately and let them know what happened. It SHOULDN'T fall apart while playing a record, if it was properly serviced; especially since the ad on their site claimed it was in good condition.

OF

lithic_leo wrote:The orthophonic reproducer literally came apart while playing a record. Needle housing came uncoupled from the backing, rubber gasket fell into crumbling pieces, and my record has a fabulous new scratch where the whole thing came tumbling down, baby and all. I put my old HMV 5b back on the tone arm, and its okay, but does anyone have any suggestions or listings for a replacement orthophonic reproducer or a competent repair?

Of course you need give them Orthophonic sound box back. My personal opinion to the issue is that you should simply play the record on the box for a short duration to test it. It is sufficient.