Giant Gramophone

Q&A about Talking Machines from the pre-electronic era (approx. 1885-1928).


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Neophone
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Sealing Taper-Tube

by Neophone » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:03 am

Gents,

Some of you may remember me from the OTVMMB, I do hope I'm not considered one of the, shall we say, less than good guys.

I recently re-packed the taper base on my Granada. I got a noticable improvement in volume. (Although my humble VV-X w/ a HMV No.4 soundbox still blows the roof off!) I had to pry out the metal/felt washer assembly. It appeared to me that the felt was never greased. The felt was soft and pliable yet and there way no sign of any grease staining on it or the surrounding wood, I assume the marks on metal washer are glue over run(?). I re-oiled the taper bearings (I wouldn't recommend taking that apart-it was a real pain!) I did try to place an additional piece of thin felt under the existing felt but it was to thick with it. I packed the area above that washer with white grease and greased the joints in the taper-tube and at the soundbox. I had previously installed a new back-gasket (Isolator?) on my sound-box and had to add plumbers tape around the gasket at that time. I added some white grease when I did the whole taper greasing. I also checked the horn itself for leaks. I have been told by some to coat the inside of the horn with varnish, but I decided to wait on that. Now all I need is a new soundbox. yet even with an unrebuilt soundbox I got a noticable volume increase. Below are two photos of the disassembled affair. (I hope!)

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I am happy to have found this board and am looking forward to many hours of enjoyable reading

Regards,
J.
Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will brighten and alter your whole life...


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Joe_DS
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Re -- Granada

by Joe_DS » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:22 am

Hi Neophone:

I remember when I removed my Credenza's tone arm, the gasket was coated with dried grease. It's possible that the workers at the Victor plant forgot to apply grease to the one you have, but who knows...

Anyway, it sounds like you are going about it the right way. As has been noted, an air tight tone chamber will ensure that there is no loss of bass, and will enhance your Victrola's overall sound quality. (This applies to all acoustic phonographs/gramophones; not just Orthophonic-era machines.)

As for varnishing the horn, I do NOT recommend this. At the suggestion of a well-known--though now deceased--sound box technician, I coated the horn of a Consolette I once owned with Enviro-Tech epoxy polymer. This put a plastic laminate coat on the surface of the wood--similar to the effect achieved by applying several coats of varnish. While the volume was substantially increased, the reproduction sounded harsh and "blasty" as if the sound waves were being shot out of a cannon. Just before I sold the Consolette, I used Jasco finish remover to remove the Enviro-Tech, and it literally exploded off the surface!

A well restored Granada, based on what I've listened to, should sound very much like an electric phonograph of the 1920/30s, with a mellow, bass-like tone. It pumps out a very convincing "impression of bass," and electrically recorded records sound very nice, though, in some cases, earlier acoustic recordings come out rather dull sounding.

A couple of weeks ago, I worked on the tone chamber of my 4-40, which as you probably know, is the follow-on to the Granada. (The horn is about a foot longer, and the mouth is about twice the size. Nonetheless, the two sound very similar, though the 4-40 does have more bass, and because of the larger mouth, gives more of a concert hall impression, though not as full as that of the Credenza.)

In any event, I checked all of the seals, worked in some fresh wood-glue at the corners, and then, for good measure, applied a liberal coat of "Howard's Restore-a-Finish" directly onto the horn's surface. After letting it set for about ten minutes, I wiped off the remainder and let it air dry for about a day before reinstalling the grille. It may be my imagination, but to my ears, it sounded considerably "fuller." I know I can now hear certain low end notes I could not hear before, and more of the mid-range is filled in. It still has the same mellow tone, overall, but with slightly more volume. Another option would be to apply a liberal coat of a penetrating oil-based matching stain to the wood.

I think, once you have a carefully restored sound box, you'll notice quite a difference in the Granada's reproduction. In the meantime, here are a few quick fix tips, providing the ball bearings are properly seated, and there are no tears or punctures in the diaphragm.

Put a few drops of "Goo-Gone" or "Goo-B-Gone" onto the corrugated edge of the metal diaphragm, near its gasket area, and then swish it around so it lightly coats the entire gasket area. Only a few drops are necessary, and try not to get any on the spider legs. For whatever reason, this made a tremendous difference to the sound quality of my as-is" Orthophonic sound box. Perhaps, the Goo-Gone, which softens glue, rubber, etc., caused the paper-backed rubber gaskets to swell slightly and seal the edge. After you do this, be sure to apply a little light weight oil directly onto the ball bearings that hold the needle bar pivot posts in place. Then, insert a steel needle and loosen and tighten it a few times to flex the diaphragm. You should hear a noticeable improvement in the sound quality--I know I did when I did this to mine earlier this year.

If you have a chance, please post of few more photos of your Granada on this board.

Take care,
DS

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Neophone
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Location: South Boston, Mass., U.S.A.

Granada Photos

by Neophone » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:48 pm

DS,

As requested here's some more photos of my Granada. I hope they're not to big.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I took these during and just after checking the horn, repacking the taper base & cleaning the cabinet for the first time with paper towels and Old English. It still needs a deeper cleaning, but the legs brightened up quite bit. They were nearly black (but no cracks!) I am very proud of this machine, it was well cared for except for some traces of a cat on the top! :roll: Sorry I don't have any photos with the tone doors open-soon.

Regards,
J.
Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will brighten and alter your whole life...


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Joe_DS
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Beautiful!

by Joe_DS » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:49 pm

Excellent photos! And the finish is in beautiful condition.

It's interesting to compare the folded horn, used on Granadas starting in mid-1926, with the small folded horns fitted into the 4-7, 7-25, etc. --
Image

It seems that the engineers were constantly tweaking the design; probably in order to squeeze as much bass as possible out of these smaller tone chambers.

Your Granada's horn seems to be in pretty good shape. I'd opt for an application of a good quality penetrating stain; perhaps work some glue in where the seams come together at the sides and around the heart, but that's probably all that is needed.


Howard Hope
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Owner of the Giant Gramophone identified.

by Howard Hope » Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:08 pm

I have only just stumbled on this question. The answer is that the house was Sherringham Hall in Norfolk and the owner of the machine was a man called Douglas Fitzpatrick. As I understand it the house was in the care of the National Trust and Mr.F and his partner were tenants. When they left many years ago the gramophone was, indeed, dismantled. Your sketch of it is accurate as to the layout, and those who heard it were duly impressed.

Howard Hope 'Selling the History of Recorded Sound for Thirty Years'
Thirty five years buying and selling the History of Recorded Sound

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