Rock-ola 464 plays randomly, but doesn't process selections

"NC" means "normally connected" or closed" (with the plunger out) in Micro Switch speak. "NO" is normally open--both in relation the "C" (common). When the plunger is pressed, NC becomes open, while NO becomes closed--Ron Rich

I'm just now getting back so I didn't get to do a thing with it. I did manage to get the analog meter.

Thanks for the ms explanation, but It's not the micros I'm having trouble understanding (I don't think anyway...), but I can understand why you would think that. I don't speak the lingo very well. I'll try to be a little clearer, but trust me it's all me and not you (plus I ramble):

2a is in a "normally closed" position when the record is playing (the button isn't depressed so it's connected to com which is connected to the ground so shouldn't the coils be energized and firing the hammers (of course the hammers would remain depressed the whole time which wouldn't be good but that's the position I'm observing the switch in while the record is playing)? That's what I'm not understanding. I guess I'm just too daft. If the cam moved and the button was briefly not being depressed and moved into a depressed state to connect "normally open" to "common" while the record was beginning to play it would make perfect sense to me because it would only be able to complete the circuit for a second or two during the transition to "normally open."

The play counter is set up the way I would expect on the two switches. It's either a timing issue or voltage issue since when the circuit completes I believe the voltage might still be in the 22V range like the hammer coils due to the magazine motor issues I thought were gone. I know I had 30v when I had my happy accident because the record was playing. If the other black wire from the counter made contact with the yellow wire to the coils that means I had 30v on nc of ms 2 going through the first black wire to the play meter and 30v on the yellow wire on nc of ms 2a jumping circuits via the loose 2nd black wire from the meter. The yellow wire had to be involved somehow for the hammer coils to energize and depress the hammers and cause the counter to move as well. I was too freaked out at the time or I would have looked more closely to see if the other black wire had made contact.

I'm setting aside 4 hours to work on it tomorrow so hopefully I'll make some progress. Between your suggestions and Jimmler's I think I'll either fix it or zero in on the problem. Muchas gracias mi amigos!

"2a is in a "normally closed" position when the record is playing (the button isn't depressed so it's connected to com which is connected to the ground so shouldn't the coils be energized and firing the hammers (of course the hammers would remain depressed the whole time which wouldn't be good but that's the position I'm observing the switch in while the record is playing)? That's what I'm not understanding. I guess I'm just too daft. If the cam moved and the button was briefly not being depressed and moved into a depressed state to connect "normally open" to "common" while the record was beginning to play it would make perfect sense to me because it would only be able to complete the circuit for a second or two during the transition to "normally open.""

The coils MUST be connected to the MicroSwitch in a fashion that they are "pulsed" for only a second, or two, not "on while the record plays--" ! They will "burn up" if allowed to be energized for more then a few seconds !
Ron Rich

If I'm understanding you correctly we are again in agreement that in the position I describe the switch in while the record is playing it should be causing the coils to be energized or completing the circuit--which is bad due to the length of time the switch remains in that position. Yet the coil never fires. If it was burnt up previously due to the switch being in that position they never would have fired the other day when I had my mishap (they could be toast now but hopefully it wasn't long enough, but it was probably for 90 seconds so I might need to order some new coils).

Yep--could it be "someone" miss-wired, the switch ?? Trace the wires---
Ron Rich

I thought that too, but it corresponds with the manual. That's why I've been so confused. I'm going to record the cam revolving and upload it so you can see what I'm possibly missing.

I know there are 3 wires to each of the hammer coils (red, green, and black). I can't find them in the manual. Do the coils get a pulse to engage and a second to release? That's what it looks like in the manual (update: I don't think so--just one to fire and after the pulse passes they release). One of the wires is probably connected to the read-out contacts (I think the green one) and the other two go the coil (red and black). I'm not certain. Jimmler will know, but it's weird that I don't see a labeled illustration for it. I need to test Them before I order new ones.

Update: I found out that they should read 30 ohms when I searched the web.

I don't have any diagrams in front of me, but I believe because there are TWO hammer coils, one for the A sides and one for the B sides, there will be three wires. One wire from each coil and then a common wire for both. I have no idea what color codes they would be, tho.

Hope that helps!

-Jim

Thanks Jimmler, you're probably right.

Ron. I'm testing a switch now with the analog meter and I believe I'm doing it correctly with this RadioShack meter I paid too much for. I set it to X1K ohms. One probe on com the other on nc. It reads below 0. I then slowly actuate the button and it goes to 500. Move the lead to no and just the opposite occurs when I actuate the button. That's what we want to see in a good switch if I did it right. Please drop me a note if I did it wrong.

Guyz,
I don't think so--the common goes to one of the connectors and should be pulsed--the other connection is used for something else--the AB switch determines which side coil will get the pulse, from switch 2A--Ron Rich

Read your meter's instructions--adjust the zero indicator, then adjust the "zero-ing function". Once zeroed, the switch should read zero, when closed and remain so, as you move the plunger--the meter dial MUST NOT move prior to the switch snap--

Okay, but were my settings correct to test it? I didn't read the instructions so I'm a bad boy there.

Jimmler. I took the magazine motor off and greased it all again. There was some slight binding again, but it's hard for me to tell so I greased and worked it some more. I do have a voltage problem. When I tested the voltage with the magazine motor off the carriage gear I got 28.1 V. When I unplugged it from the connector I got 31.4 V. I can open the motor up and try to clean it. Hopefully it will still work afterwards. Since I have a slight hum I'm leaning towards a bad capacitor. I'm shocked that the hum wasn't picked up in the video I made, but all the pops and hisses from the 45 were.

I made a pretty crappy video of the cam in motion that's uploading to Youtube. It's less than two minutes long and I'll post the link when it's done.

http://youtu.be/YBafW7T648A

I forgot to add that you'll hear the cb tripping when the magazine scans at the end. The two wires dangling belong to the counter.

Ron Rich wrote:Guyz,
I don't think so--the common goes to one of the connectors and should be pulsed--the other connection is used for something else--the AB switch determines which side coil will get the pulse, from switch 2A--Ron Rich

I'll take a pic in a minute, but the way I remember it is the green wire goes through the spring separate from the red black wires which go to the coils. That's why I thought it was attached to the read-out contacts.

I sure dono WTF that green wire is going to ?? Don't remember ever seeing it there ??
Ron Rich

LOL! That's funny!

Hey! I believe the magazine motor gear is supposed to turn freely? If not, never mind. I cleaned and oiled it, but I imagine I need to open it and clean it and then oil it. Maybe then it won't pull my voltage down.

I'll take more pics, but I believe they're soldered to the little square plate and it moves with the spring. I thought they were the read out contacts because I thought they were touching the levers along with the hammers.


One more thing... I attempted to zero my meter as the instructions read (It said to place it on an ohm setting and touch the leads and take a screw driver to adjust the needle to zero)... Welllll... No matter how tight or how loose I adjusted it, it always was past zero. Anyway, the needle didn't move before the snap on the switches I've tested so far.

Maybe this will clear things up for us all:



Oh my gosh! look how dirty they are. I hosed them down with deoxit!